Finally, some first hand reports on living with a FCV

was it troy heagy?

 

Probably. An ex-Honda guy.

Regarding the refuel time, did Hyundai ever advertised it as 3 minutes? I have only see Mirai as 3-5 minutes. It is good to see them exceeding the EPA range. I like to see owner experience in the winter.

 

hasn't honda had one for years?

 

The hydrogen lobby is the one advertizing the 3 minute refuel time, and it being as convienent as refueling a gasoline or diesel car. Like them, and unlike recharging a plugin, how quickly a FCV fills up depends wholly on the refueling station; the current pressure of the fill tank, the ambient temperature, and what temperature the hydrogen is pre-chilled too. A car that can communicate with the pumps might be able to fill up a little faster, but its main advantage is in getting more hydrogen into the tank. Without the communication, a FCV may only fill to 95%.

Pre-chilling the hydrogen is a major factor. A type A station drops the temperature down to -40C. These are the stations with a nominal fill time of 3 minutes. Type B drops it to -20C, and their nominal fill time is 7 minutes. There is also type C (0C) and D(no pre-chill) stations that have progressively longer fill times, and why early articles on FCVs talk about 20 minute+ fill ups.

There might be some confusion among the public on these refuel times that the hydrogen group will need to address in order to avoid refill disappointment. They should clarify that the refill time is the time it takes once the nozzle is connected to the car.

Yes, the Clarity. It and the F-Cell from Mercedes(which IIRC Troy got used) have been available for a few years through a test lease program. The Hyundai and Toyota ones are more commercial ready than those. Honda has a Clarity concept of the second generation making the auto show rounds, and I expect it will arrive not long after the Mirai actually starts showing up on the road.

 

Honda has had fcv in the us since 2005. Mercedes has the f-cell. Hyundai is the first "mass produced" as it is put together on the same line as other tucson's. Lots of articles on the clarity and f-cell. Honda says they will have the second gen clarity with improvements of range because of 10,000 psi tanks up from 5000 psi, seating for 5, etc, etc.

Hyundai is leasing about 60 in the US, which means soon their will be more tucson's running around california than either clarities or f-cells. Later this year toyota expects about 200 mirai in california, which will more than double the fuel cell cars leased.

2016 and 2017 toyota expects to put 2800 more mirai on US roads 90% leased but some of them sold. These will be the first fuel cell cars sold in north america with a waranty. The mirai is hand built like the lexus lfa, not mass produced like the tucson fcv, but I don't think that matters very much. Both toyota and hyundai agree that toyota's costs are lower.

 

other than a future barn find, i can't imagine anyone wanting to own one. leno?

 

if you always refill your car at 3/4 to 1/2 tank, as one of the drivers apparently does, because of poor H2 availability, that really evaporates the whole "250 miles on a tank" claim, doesn't it.

 

Did Hyundai rush out to beat Toyota? Toyota has until Oct to ready the refueling infrastructure for Mirai launch.

 

Oh yeah because in 3 months things are going to change radically. lol.

 

Believe!

 

This just came out today.

Q: What’s happening in California right now? (Toyota is currently limiting Mirai sales to California.)

Scott: There are 48 stations that are planned and funded by the state of California that are all in various stages of development. There are a handful of stations that already exist but we don’t consider those to be Mirai-friendly, if you will, they’re really not ready for prime time. Of the 48 that have been developed, two have been completed so far. Probably another eight or so that are in construction. By the end of the year we’re anticipating somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 to 15 stations open and ready. That means that they’re retail ready for a Mirai customer. That will obviously grow over time and we [should have] 20 more for next year. There are funding cycles in California. It’s roughly $20 million a year. (Note that there are eight dealerships in California that will be providing the Mirai in the San Francisco Bay area and Los Angeles and nearby OrangeCounty.)

Q: How big a hurdle is infrastructure?

Scott: Toyota is working with infrastructure developers on the west coast and the east coast. Infrastructure is vastly improved this year over last year but it’s still lagging. There’s still a lot of development work that needs to occur. I often say that the infrastructure is a generation behind the vehicle. And that’s something that’s going to have to be resolved and reconciled pretty quickly [over] these next two years as we ramp up sales and as other manufacturers come online.

Q: How does this compare to Japan, where the government seems hell-bent on building out a fuel-cell infrastructure?

Scott: There [is] more funding available in Japan than in the U.S. as a rule. The government has taken a very active role in helping to propagate stations across the country whereas in the U.S. that hasn’t happened yet. There is no federal policy towards a hydrogen infrastructure [in the U.S.]. And there’s a big push right now in Japan to deregulate a lot of chemical standards that get in the way, [like those for] compressed gases. That will lead to a much more simplified and standardized approval process for permitting, which is something we’re sorely lacking in the U.S.​

 

What's your point? Last I checked, Tesla didn't build the grid. They aren't building the giga battery factory without the government incentives neither.

It would be nice if Toyota takes all the burden and build everything in the US for free. Realistically, even in Japan, the burden is shared between Honda, Nissan and Japanese government.

 

In Japan, the majority is being spent by the government, just as it is here..

Tesla didn't build the grid, but they did build a network of chargers spanning the country. Each costing $400k to $800k by the figures I posted in the other thread. How many $2.2 million hydrogen stations will Toyota's contribution build in California?

 

Any FCV can use the H2 station. Anybody can (eventually in the future) buy FCV so yes, everyone can use it.

The argument is silly. I don't drive on every mile of the federal highway system. Why do I have to pay for it?

Every FCV from GM, Honda, Hyundai, BMW, etc can refuel in any H2 stations. You are asking Mirai owners to pay for H2 stations that other FCV owners can use?

 

I'm asking Toyota to put their money where their mouth is; to prove their commitment. If they are saying the Mirai isn't really ready, why can't they foot more of the bill for the stations needed for this round of testing.

Superchargers aren't banned to non Tesla owners. The other car companies simply have refused to pay into Tesla's system. No one is saying Toyota has to give the hydrogen away for free at any station they build.

 

Because they aren't so, you go and talk how bad FCVs and how bad hydrogen are?

Disagree with a cooperation roll out approach? Bad mouth the technology! Ok, justified!

You are working with your own agenda and bias. Critical thinking is nowhere to be found.