VSC Training, knowing what to expect

Hmm... well, you probably already know how ABS works, right? It pumps the brakes for you, so you don't have to. To take advantage of this feature, just step on the brake as hard as you can, and steer in the direction you want to go. No foot pumping allowed, and remember to steer.

The VSC system is designed to make the car go in the direction you're steering by comparing your steering wheel input to what the car is actually doing, then modifying the car's behavior to make it match your steering input. So just point the car in the direction you want it to go. The computer should figure out what to do so that the car keeps going in that direction. Don't turn into a skid, because if you do, the VSC will try to overrotate your car because that's what it thinks you're telling it to do.

It's kind of ironic that by making it easier for beginners to drive, it forces people who have learned how to cope with older technology to unlearn their skills. If you give us more information about what happened before, during, and after your skid into the snowbank, we could tell you more about what we think happened and how you should have reacted.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nyprius @ Apr 23 2006, 11:17 PM) [snapback]244147[/snapback]</div>

You clearly misunderstand the purpose VSC. It only activates when you are taking a corner too hard and are not touching the brakes.

In other words, it is already too late for you to respond. Only a computer that has independent control of the wheels can at that point, since it has access to more than just a brake pedal offers and can react far quicker than a human.

Once per year is all the more I trigger the VSC. And it is pretty darn obvious that the assist was something I wouldn't have been able to provide.

As for your "brake or acceleration" comment, that's ABS & Traction-Control not VSC.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nyprius @ Apr 23 2006, 10:17 PM) [snapback]244147[/snapback]</div>

This is a classic argument that has been used against systems like ABS and traction control in the past.

The simple fact is that VSC can react far more quickly than you can, and it also has the ability to brake individual wheels, which you cannot do either. When you activate VSC, you will know it. A light comes on and the vehicle beeps. If you have activated VSC, you are already driving beyond the limits of your tires, and you are already oversteering/understeering. If you drive at a safe speed for the conditions, and if you slow down to a reasonable speed when turning (particularly when road conditions are less than ideal), you should not be activating VSC.

The Prius is not a sports car, and it is not forgiving if you try to drive it like one. In the past 4 months, I have activated VSC once - and that was when I was taking a turn far faster than I should have. This is in Colorado - we have had some nice snowfall and really nasty icy conditions last winter.

Now, as for traction control, I think it's a bit overzealous - but it does do the job.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bsoft @ Apr 24 2006, 05:11 AM) [snapback]244190[/snapback]</div>

Is VSC needed in flat terrain, like in Louisiana? Our highest hill is Monkey Hill at the Audubon Zoo. A very scary 26 feet high, <g>.

Gary
2006 Prius




Gary

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BayouBulldog @ Apr 24 2006, 09:28 AM) [snapback]244211[/snapback]</div>

VSC doesn't care about altitude.

If you ever get an ice storm, first, stay home, 'cause you probably don't know how to drive on ice. But if you absolutely must go out to have someone crash into your vehicle the VSC will do it's best to insure your car is in control as it gets smashed. Odds are though that you won't go anywhere due to the Traction Control disabling the driving wheels since you won't know how to drive on ice and probably won't have tires for ice. Not picking on you, it's just that we see the videos of what happens when the extreme south gets any slick roads.

nyprius, it'd have been better if you had learned to brake on slick surfaces by feathering the brakes. ABS still works with feathered brakes and you are still in the "control" you desire. By feathering the brakes ABS is more of an assist than having the car take the braking over fully. I hate that also.

Do what I did, if you have a suitable place for it... I took the new fangled systems out in a completely empty parking lot after a spring snow storm and had at 'em. Tried some controlled braking, accelerating, and tight turns to see what to expect. Then I realized the car was faster than I was and then it'd hand control back to me, all done much faster than I ever could have reacted. On the trip home from that shake down test all of those systems came on multiple times. They're very good. It hepls to do this with summer tires on.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nyprius @ Apr 25 2006, 09:47 AM) [snapback]244831[/snapback]</div>

Hey NYPrius - sounds like we're the same kind of driver - I really enjoy "surfing" a car in the snow - I grew up in Montreal. I used to have this rear wheel drive BMW 320i that was sooo fun to drive in the snow, even at speed on highways covered in snow. The camber of the front steering made sure that car was always going where you wanted and you could drive the tail in or out with the gas pedal - what a blast to drive.
For good and for bad, just about all modern cars have these optional safety features that take some of the joy of driving away... but generally do improve safety.
It sounds like you do encounter enough snow that you need snow tires! I've only had one fender bender ever, and it was a lot like your slide into the snowbank, but mine was turning a corner in downtown Montreal with cars all over the place! I was going REALLY slow too - there was just no way I would have held the road without snow tires. Up in Montreal "all season" tires are commonly refered to as "3 season tires" or sometimes even "banana peels"! I think I've heard a lot of New Englanders call them similar names. I'd bet that your reverse-downhill-auto-slalom would have been averted too!

Dave

Cheers!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nyprius @ Apr 25 2006, 07:47 AM) [snapback]244831[/snapback]</div>

i tried to do some homework on car weight, and the best i could do was find that a 1999 camry solara weighs around 1500 lbs. if your '89 camry is even close to that, that means it's a half ton lighter than the prius.

combine greater vehicle weight with vsc and lousy tires, and i think you probably have a good explanation of the slide.

which is to say, i think vsc contributes to this problem, but is not the only factor.

does anyone have an 04 - 06 prius without vsc? how does it perform on snow and ice?

also, w/r/t people's advice on driving on very icy or snowy roads, here is the thing: don't. it simply doesn't matter how much experience you have, how good a driver you are, what kind of car you're driving. when you're driving on ice, it means other people are driving on ice as well. and it's almost guaranteed that at least one of those people is in over her or her head. the smart thing to do in very bad weather is to stay off the road.

 

Samkusnetz, I think you got the weights in the wrong units. An 89 Camry is listed as 1250 kg, or 2750 lbs. The 99 Camry Solara is 3120 lbs.

I think 1500 lbs is getting into the original Mini's territory.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bsd43 @ Apr 25 2006, 01:53 PM) [snapback]245056[/snapback]</div>

thanks for pointing out my clumsy mistake. if only we could switch to metric here in the us...

so i guess that takes weight out of the equation (although in other instances, such a with a mini or an suv, i do think weight would make a big difference.)

cheers
sk

 

I had a similar thing happen to me, trying to get up a snowy, icy hill. The person in front of me was (wrongly) trying to go up the hill slowly, so I wasn't able to go up at the speed that I felt was appropriate. So I held off from the accelerator, lost my momentum, and ended up slipping backwards.

Fortunately, I didn't slide into a snowbank. Here, the problem wasn't VSC or ABS, but traction control. All I did was hold down on the accelerator, and the car gradually got going forward again, but VERY SLOWLY, because it didn't like the wheels slipping.

In the end, the experience seemed okay. I'm not an EXPERT in driving in ice and snow, but I'm not sure that I could have done much better.

As the original poster pointed out, the problem isn't so much that the technology is bad, as it is my (and others') inexperience. Not knowing what to expect when you are driving is a bad thing.

(which is why the second that we had a big snowfall after getting the car, my wife and I went out to a empty parking lot and exercised all of the systems!)