Up for a challenge?

Well you could do a compromise and do 1/2 the course during morning rush hour city street traffic & the other half on the interstate just before afternoon rush hour traffic so you get caught in both normal & congested traffic situations...

Any one know why diesel costs so much more than gasoline?

 

Dude, the hybrid efficiency discussion has been debated ad nauseum. Don't forget that with the increased power from the electric drive, you get a smaller, more efficient engine.

The roads you mentioned: my Prius gets 53-56 mpg going 65-75 mph. There is also smart coasting and smart regnerative braking (meaning you don't let regenerative braking occur until it's needed as w/ road/traffic conditions - and otherwise try to run on no energy bars otherwise).

The highway fuel economy would be a tough call for a winner, but the Prius would win hands down in heavier traffic conditions. I've driven about 60k hybrid miles and know pretty damn well what my car is capable of getting under different conditions.

 

I have to say that on the freeway it would be tough, but anywhere under 40 mph where I will can pulse and glide in traffic with out being killed there is no way the diesel will do better than I will. I may pixx a lot of people off but I will rack up the miles and there are better drivers than I. Summer with a warmed up engine no way traffic stop and start and I will get 60 mpg and I am a intermediate driver at best. Let us remember the 110 mpg by the marathon guys in Pennsylvania last August.

 

I have extensive experience with modern turbocharged diesel cars ("TDI's" like Americans like to call them, although that's a brand name, and almost all modern diesels are common rails these days, thanks to Fiat). And now recently I also own a Prius.

It's actually amazing what silly comparisons some people try to make, such as comparing mpg of a Volkswagen Lupo against a Prius. Did someone actually compare the size of both cars? The Lupo is a sub-mini car. Not even to mention that the Prius is automatic, whereas the Lupo has manual gear.

In addition, comparing a Prius with a diesel only on the highway is unfair. Most of the innovative technology that goes into the Prius is made to improve mpg in city driving.

Currently, there is *no* diesel car with a size equal to the Prius and with automatic gear that can achieve the same mpg as the Prius in a 50% city and 50% highway driving. That's a simple fact.

And there is more. It takes approximately 15% more fossile oil to come to the same amount of diesel as it takes to make gasoline. In addition, there is no diesel car on the market that comes even close to the Prius when it comes to clean emissions.

Does this mean I don't like diesels? Nope! We also have a nice big Volvo XC70 with a 185hp common rail turbo diesel that easily gives me 35mpg on the highway maintaining a speed of 95 mph. This is the real good thing about diesels: they remain relatively efficient even if they are pushed hard. This is why you find diesels in trucks and boats.

Our Prius is perfect for city and short distance driving. For long distances, such as travelling, the Volvo diesel will definetely remain our car of choice for various good reasons.

 

Well, Autoweek did this test this week --- cover story.
The Jetta TDI (NA spec) hammered the Prius with respect to fuel economy on an expressway drive across Michigan. Very interesting, and revealing. No contest, really.
I would recommend anyone in here read this story.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vikingrob @ Apr 21 2006, 08:02 PM) [snapback]243420[/snapback]</div>

 

http://mdahmus.monkeysystems.com/blog/archives/000249.html

This guy on livejournal posted the results of a real-world test in Canada involving some cars we're all familiar with. As with CR's results, in a real-world test, the small diesel car didn't even come close to the mileage of the bigger (midsize) Prius.

http://cychan.livejournal.com/27645.html

http://mdahmus.monkeysystems.com/blog/archives/000247.html

Car City Hwy 0-60 time
Jetta TDI 24 mpg 46 mpg 12.2 seconds
Civic Hybrid 26 mpg 47 mpg 11.7 seconds
Prius 35 mpg 50 mpg 11.3 seconds

(I never thought I'd be using Consumer Reports figures to make a point!!!!)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(judibob @ Apr 22 2006, 11:03 AM) [snapback]243623[/snapback]</div>

Another article for your reading pleasure:

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/84...pics-page3.html

Mileage on the Highway
All four cars got more than 40 mpg, and the Prius hit 50. Amazingly, the One-Calorie Toyota Echo squeaked above its EPA highway number (39) to 41 mpg. The diesel, at 42 mpg, fell 2 mpg behind its EPA rating.

Mileage in Town
The Prius again scored at the top with 52 mpg. Dr. Diesel, in last place at 33, was a bit of a surprise. We expected more. Diesels are at their best, relatively speaking, under light loads; they inject very little fuel and they have no throttling losses. Again, the One-Calorie Echo did superbly at 42 mpg.

 

I am not discounting the Autoweek test, but obviously there are multiple other sources that have found the opposite. No one doubts that diesels get good mileage on the highway/interstate. Guess what, so do hybrids.

Perhaps a link to the Autoweek test will allow everyone to compare the actual numbers and to see if it really was no contest. When multiple tests come out with diesel highway mileage significantly above that of a Prius, then certain conclusions can be made. That is not the case yet.

At this point though, I am satisfied with my 48-50 mpg on the interstate at 72-75 mph without having to deal with diesel.

 

Sorry, a 11-12 hour trip isn't exactly what I would consider reasonable for me. While I appreciate your enthusiasm, I am not going to drive between 1500-2000 miles to figure out who has the best mileage. I may just be cheap, but I see this as a waste of fuel and money resources.

If any of the Jetta TDI owners are in Lubbock or nearby (I know there are some Lubbock owners, not sure if they are on tdiclub or not) I will gladly try the challenge with them. I will have to warn them though that I doubt they can get within 20 mpg of my city mileage (current tank at 60.1 at 458 miles). But I also would suspect the interstate/highway portion will be closer in mileage.

 

Rather than going from this thread to find participants halfway across the US, why not try to find those closer to your location? Like john1701a in Minnesota or posters from other areas using the clubs.

I have already said I am not going to spend the time or money to put 2k miles on a car just on a challenge, since I don't really have an abundance of either of these resources. Obviously you and Ernie are willing to drive that far for this, I am not. There are no areas within an hour drive for me that is that close to Minnesota or Utah. Perhaps when we go to visit our family in UT, Ernie and I can meet up, but we aren't planning on going up there within the next 6 months.

 

Why even challenge? The Prius will cost LESS to run in the first 100,000 miles. VWs SUCK BIG TIME. I love my Prius.

 

I'll do the Philly test.. As long as speed is not an issue.. I have done about 40-43mph on the highway before.. and got about 80mpg.
I would do it over 200 miles.. and beat the pants off any TDI.

Bring it on!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vikingrob @ Apr 24 2006, 04:16 AM) [snapback]244110[/snapback]</div>

Ah, you opened a can of worms here...

First of all, right now biodiesel is *not* a replacement for regular diesel, simply because of the sheer amount you would need. There is no mechanism in place nor anything foreseen in the near or mid future that would provide all car owners with biodiesel. It's a nice idea, but right now it's not a realistic solution for the the worldwide CO2 problems.

On the other hand, a Prius runs on regular gasoline, which means that it is a possible option for any car owner right now. It is perfectly possible for all car owners to switch to an advanced hybrid car like a Prius (supposed car manufacturers were willing to do the switch). And the amount of CO2 exhaust caused by private transportation would go down by more than 50%

Second, if you want to use that argument, you need to look at the environmental load of the entire growing and production effect. There is no total agreement here, but many studies point out the the figure is not nice if you do that (even for CO2!). This will definetely improve, but there is a long way to go here.

The advanced hybrid technology with regenerative braking pioneered by the Prius and similar initiatives is available now, and is there to stay. It will soon find its way to diesel cars as well, and that will give something really interesting.