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Transcript of the final moments of Flight 93....

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Mystery Squid, Apr 12, 2006.

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  1. larkinmj

    larkinmj New Member

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    I don't think that I will see it either. I am not sure if this is a fitting tribute to the courage of the passengers who fought the hijackers, or if it is a crass effort to commercialize a tragedy. I think I will leave that judgement to the families of those who were killed in the crash.
     
    #41 larkinmj, Apr 26, 2006
  2. ribbs

    ribbs New Member

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    It is interesting to me how people generalize Hollywood - Hollywood loves this, Hollywood does that. I work in the industry (film composer) and I can tell you that 'Hollywood' does not exist in the way that most people think. There are no conspiracies, no agendas, no cabals to do anything other than to entertain people and make money while doing it. Sometimes it is only the latter. There are rare exceptions - Robert Greenwald's series of documentaries, Michael Moore's work, but by and large this is a business like any other. It must make money to survive. If the customer doesn't buy it, it won't get made again. If it is bought, it gets made over and over until that well is dry. Simple business, just like any other at the heart of it.
     
    #42 ribbs, Apr 26, 2006
  3. eyeguy13

    eyeguy13 Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ Apr 26 2006, 01:30 PM) [snapback]245632[/snapback]</div>
    Well said...

    It's funny how you, efusco and myself (who served in the military, and others on this thread) seem to be the voice of reason and restraint.

    There is nothing that logic and reason can't solve, but it may take time. War is just quicker.
     
    #43 eyeguy13, Apr 26, 2006
  4. dsunman

    dsunman New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ribbs @ Apr 26 2006, 03:33 PM) [snapback]245663[/snapback]</div>
    ribbs,

    I've have nothing against Hollywood, I respect it for whatever in my mind it deserves respect for. Besides, 'Hollywood' connotes a rather very broad meaning, not only as industry but also as a existing demeaning verb within English language suggesting vulgarity, do I agree with the latter take of the broad definition? not necessarily. I don't know the origin of the latter meaning.

    I personally don't see conspiracies, agendas or cabals either, although I'm an outsider and don't know too much how it really works. I truly never pay attention to the Hollywoodesque sensationalism as that is irrelevant to me, my example of 06-06-06 'Omen' premiere didn't mean to insinuate anything other then recognition of business marketing scheme, sorry that you read into it as a negative anti-hollywood stance. Not intentional...

    :)
     
    #44 dsunman, Apr 26, 2006
  5. marjflowers

    marjflowers New Member

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    Back to the original topic ...

    I don't think the movie has come out, at least not nationally. So who can say everyone should see this film? My question -- is it a good movie?

    If Schindler's List had been a crappy movie, would it still have been a must-see because of the subject matter?

    Come on, it's a MOVIE.

    Peace --
     
    #45 marjflowers, Apr 26, 2006
  6. Schmika

    Schmika New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(talonts @ Apr 26 2006, 03:32 AM) [snapback]245392[/snapback]</div>
    Comparing the few clinic bombings and even fewer deaths to Muslim terrorism is insane.
     
    #46 Schmika, Apr 26, 2006
  7. seeh2o

    seeh2o Prius OG

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Apr 26 2006, 09:24 PM) [snapback]245886[/snapback]</div>

    Gosh, and I thought from your postings you were pro life, that ALL human life was precious. My mistake.
     
    #47 seeh2o, Apr 27, 2006
  8. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    I recieved, via PM, a request to post the following from one of our members. Except for the first few lines of the PM which were directed to me I post the message in it's entirety.



    My request is to submit a post (to the thread about the Flight 93 movie) - not from your identity - just that another poster who didn't want his identity revealed wanted this posted.

    I'll explain the odd request: I am not a Muslim... more specifically I am a former Muslim. My username is my real world first name (i made it awhile ago), and I wish not for people in my Muslim community to ever know that I'm not a Muslim (they wouldn't kill me or anything like that, but I would much rather avoid drama)... the reason being is that I've showed friends (Muslim) Priuschat before. Now, the chances are low that they (if I had posted it myself) would find out... but you'd be surprised how quickly rumors spread. One woman from our community converted to Christianity - and people found out through rumors far before it ever became official. She went on with her life as a Christian, but the whole thing caused much drama.

    Here is the requested post from a 'user who didn't want his identity revealed"'

    "blanket hatred is no good - so is a religions unwillingness to police itself. their silence as their brothers in religion commit MURDER in their religions name is DEAFENING and I am sure it upsets you as much as it does me."

    I am disgusted with this attitude.... I'll give you plenty of PERSONAL examples where I stood up and supported the only country I know as my home.

    Note that I'm not weakened and seeking attention by my examples... I consider myself a very strong individual, and racist remarks no longer reflect so much on me anymore (as in me being affected emotionally by racist statements) - they reflect greatly of the person making the said remarks.

    A few days after 9-11, Nazi symbols and other graphic anti-Arab, anti-Islamic, and anti-Jewish/Semitic depictions were drawn on our local mosque (I can only suppose these were pro-Nazi supremicists who wanted to scare the Muslims with depictions of a 2nd Holocaust or something of that nature). Ironically, only a small percentage of the local Muslim population is Arabic. Most have origins from India and Pakistan.

    Also a few days after 9-11, my city held a vigil, which I had attended in order to show solidarity with the victims of 9-11. There was a good showing of Muslims from our local mosque that also came to the event. I wanted to help, so a police officer gave me a box filled with candles that I helped pass around. Most people didn't notice me, but there were some individuals who gave me visibly disgusted looks (for my skin color... I am a kempt person and take care of myself). A few made it a point to avoid me and not accept the candles I was passing out. That day I learned that, in terms of showing my support for America, to some people my efforts that day would reflect accurately the phrase "damned if I do, damned if I don't."

    The ridiculousness of the racial prejudice only continues. My Muslim friend and I were volunteering at the local hospital over the summer (I am not trying to portray myself as someone superior, but just a humble citizen doing my part in society). I pull into a parking lot with my '01 PRIUS... P-R-I-U-S. My friend and I are at the back of my car walking towards the hospital. A guy in a red Jeep Grand Cherokee (I remember it like it was yesterday) and two other people in the car pulls up to us... and pretends to almost hit my friend with his Jeep's bumper. He rolls down the window, and I'm just frozen there... he looks at me and tells me that "you sand n***ers need to go back to oil kingdom." First note the oil reference... I AM DRIVING A F***ING PRIUS FOR CHRIST'S SAKE! Second our parents were originally from India and Pakistan!!!!!!! He drives to the drop off area in front of the hospital, but since there are people there my friend and I decide to go in... not getting close to the racists' vehicle. As I'm walking to the volunteer desk, I look at the vehicle driving away... with the guy in the back apparently laughing his a** off at what just happened.

    I can give you several more examples of racism... no matter how Patriotic I am. Those are the two most prominent, since they apply most to this thread. I hope some of you take your comments back... because more of what I mentioned is the only thing they will generate.

    As far as the movie Flight 93 goes... I would go to it (especially since I hear that something like 10% of the profit is going to the 9-11 Memorials)... but I am afraid that if I went (to show and give my monetary support)... I would only face more of what I faced in the past... simply re-awakened in some racist people. The racist comments themselves don't bother me so much because of their sheer stupidity (I hope that I have conveyed that point well) and how they reflect upon the person who says such revealing comments, but it is rather humiliating while it's being said... and you just kinda stand there stupefied... not knowing how to react.



    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Apr 26 2006, 09:24 PM) [snapback]245886[/snapback]</div>


    I didn't realize it was about numbers. So if a group just kills one or two people, in the name of God, that's OK? I think your line of reasoning here is not very sound.
     
    #48 efusco, Apr 27, 2006
  9. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    All I have to say is that sucks. However, it would have been the same if the hijackers were, Venezuelan, let's say... Then every Hispanic, Mexican, Columbian, Ecuadorian, would be in the same boat, so to speak...

    It's like super-bad PR/advertising, of all the times to scream Islamic phrases... I'll be most Americans were only vaguely familiar with Islam/Muslims, and the only exposure they got to it was on 9/11....

    I suppose to add to this story, on that day, I got a call from my friend in NYC who was watching the day's events unfold from Long Island City. Anyway, a co-worker of his, who's named even happened to be Osama (no joke either), was literally, afraid for his life that day, and actually had to think about and plan, how he'd make it home safely. That's gotta suck. He didn't show up to work for like the next week and a half, until things died down a bit. Also caused quite a stir when a big shipment of something or other was marked in big bold letters: Deliver to Osama... Apparently, the CEO of the company had to address the issue that someone actually named Osama worked for him....
     
    #49 Mystery Squid, Apr 27, 2006
  10. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ribbs @ Apr 26 2006, 12:33 PM) [snapback]245663[/snapback]</div>
    My point exactly. No conspiracies. Just an industry whose ONLY concern is to make money. Truth and honesty do not matter to it. Distorting reality by fictionalizing historical events is fine with it. Just so long as it makes money. So I assume from the outset (without any conspiracies!) that this movie will distort the facts to twist the viewers' emotions, and in so doing will fuel racist hatred against an entire group of people.

    Notice how the folks demanding that everyone must see this movie are the same ones who want us to be angry against the entire Muslim world; the same folks who think we did right to launch a war against a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, and had no WMD's, folks who think that it's just fine that we killed tens of thousands of innocent people in order to remove a dictator we helped install in the first place, who we armed, on the grounds that he was brutal to his own people!!!
     
    #50 daniel, Apr 27, 2006
  11. dsunman

    dsunman New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 27 2006, 10:04 AM) [snapback]246071[/snapback]</div>
    Squidly, little correction here, I'm not intending to pick on you. This is solely for the sake of understanding the diversities among Venezuelans and other South and Latin American countries in terms of racial composition.

    There is quite huge population of Germans, Italian, Spaniard and Portuguese within Venezuela going back to the times of Bolivar, it's not a mono racial society in terms of physical appearance. Hence the stereotypical Caucasian from Venezuela would easily avoid any racial profiling. This is rather opposite when taken into the account in case of the Middle Eastern and Arab countries from which highjackers have originated.

    In due fairness to Venezuelanos and others.
    ;)
     
    #51 dsunman, Apr 27, 2006
  12. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dsunman @ Apr 27 2006, 08:55 PM) [snapback]246383[/snapback]</div>
    Yeah, no sh%t Sherlock, I'm a Caucasian from South America myself... Nice of you to point that out, hope your ego gets boosted a few points, so you're welcome in advance... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    "quite huge" is spectacularly relative.
     
    #52 Mystery Squid, Apr 27, 2006
  13. Schmika

    Schmika New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Apr 27 2006, 09:13 AM) [snapback]246044[/snapback]</div>

    No, bad analogies make bad arguments...THAT was my point.
     
    #53 Schmika, Apr 27, 2006
  14. dsunman

    dsunman New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 27 2006, 10:42 PM) [snapback]246430[/snapback]</div>
    I've tried nicely the first time, to no avail. It was not about anyone's ego but ONLY about YOUR GROSS racial mislabeling of the Venezuelans. YOU display luck of knowledge that seems to spark your own INTIMIDATION every time someone presents info contradictory to your mindset and acquired knowledge, you have a problem boy. Majority of people are eager to embrace unknown without any intimidation and defensiveness. Your EGO on the other hand can't take it that someone else may correct you, or criticizes you, or God forbid might present more KNOWLEDGE or experience on SOME subjects that YOU didn't have a chance to venture into yet.


    This time I'll reiterate it on the level of your comprehension, if you ever visit Caracas and stroll the city for a day and start counting racial division within the city, you'll notice quite (NOT RELATIVE BUT ALSO AVAILABLE STATISTICALLY) a diversity. I doubt you'll arrive at such a conclusion at Al-Riyadh my boy, even if you counter expats and a diplomatic corpus into it.

    Suggestion, please ignore my posts, as they perplex you to state of bruised ego.

    Go on, and froth... ;)
     
    #54 dsunman, Apr 28, 2006
  15. bacinmass

    bacinmass Junior Member

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    Just a couple of quick notes to add to this interesting thread...

    1. My next door neighbors are muslim. And they are exceedling kind, thoughtful, and overall lovely neighbors. Now, when I hear "hate the muslims" talk, it sounds so ignorant for the speaker to make such blanket uninformed generalizations.

    2. Regarding "Hollywood" and the movie... it will be interesting to see if the airplane passengers who undertook their brave revolt are accurately portrayed. One of them was a gay man -- I just wanted to point that out, given all the nastiness voiced in the "Massachusetts Fairytale" thread.

    If we open our minds to all the possibilities of the truth (muslims are often lovely people, gay men are often brave leaders, and all the other truths we aren't aware of) this world can be a wonderful place to be.

    'Nuff said. Now to go drive my perfectly-engineered Prius!
     
    #55 bacinmass, Apr 28, 2006
  16. ribbs

    ribbs New Member

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    Squid - get help.
     
    #56 ribbs, Apr 28, 2006
  17. dsunman

    dsunman New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 28 2006, 11:02 AM) [snapback]246631[/snapback]</div>
    It's not only Caracas but other major cities as well, and I'm not talking about indiginous Yanomami, Piaora or Waraos. btw you should visit Merida with greatest selection of ice-cream on the planet, I'm sure they have squidly flavor available. I'm very well acquainted with Venezuela my boy, so you can challenge as much as you want. Vilnius, racially diverse city 'durak' :lol:

    BTW, it's doesn't take just setting the foot, takes something else, I'm not sure you'll ever figure this out :blink:

    Typical shtick of yours, beyond any merits as usually. Talking about hyper intimidation. :blink:

    kvetch :lol:
     
    #57 dsunman, Apr 28, 2006
  18. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dsunman @ Apr 28 2006, 01:39 PM) [snapback]246731[/snapback]</div>
    We will now give you your kind applause...

    btw, good answer on Vilnius (even though you *might* have taken a chance), I saw barely ANY diversity there myself... I think I saw a Mongolian type crossing the street somewhere... Spectacular piece of BAIT if I do say so myself!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
    #58 Mystery Squid, Apr 28, 2006
  19. dsunman

    dsunman New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 28 2006, 01:51 PM) [snapback]246739[/snapback]</div>
    By whom do you mean 'we'? :blink:

    Or perhaps you speak on behalf of your split personalities. :blink:

    You saw the 'Mongolian type' did he have a Mongolian flag pinned to his forehead or you just have phrenologist capabilities therefore you have concluded your observation on the sole protrusion of zygoma? :blink:

    Never been to Lithuania yet, you lucky bastard! ;)

    Kvetch and durak combined :lol:
     
    #59 dsunman, Apr 28, 2006
  20. Salsawonder

    Salsawonder New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Apr 27 2006, 06:13 AM) [snapback]246044[/snapback]</div>
    If the movie is being made with mostly non-actors that means a lower bottom line. Seems like 10% is a bit low for true philanthropy. I'll watch when it comes on HBO. It is too emotional a thing to watchi n a theater.


    The respective value of an individuals life has been reviewed on PC before. Some believe one life means more than another. That judgement is not in my hands.
     
    #60 Salsawonder, Apr 28, 2006
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