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All Good Things Must Come to An End

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by malorn, May 1, 2006.

  1. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    The Avalon has major problems in its first year, wondering how the launch of the all-new camry will go. Same plant and probably many of the same suppliers and engineers. ;) This article is mainly about one guy but I can tell you in the auto business the word-of-mouth is not good on the new Avalon.

    http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...ct=newsletter02
     
  2. HybridVigor

    HybridVigor New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 1 2006, 06:22 AM) [snapback]247897[/snapback]</div>
    Any chance you can cut/paste that article in? I tried to follow the link and it required registration to another site... Bummer if Toyota is starting to struggle with its quality in sectors. I suppose its bound to happen, and I hope that its quickly recognized and dealt with.
     
  3. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    Avalon shows dent in Toyota quality
    Fixes sought for 'problematic vehicle'


    Mark Rechtin | |

    Automotive News | 6:00 am, May 1, 2006




    LOS ANGELES -- Alan Seider has owned 11 Toyotas since 1982, but his 2006 Avalon likely will be his last.

    He says quality glitches have bedeviled his Toyota sedan, which he has driven less than 6,000 miles since he bought it last July. His dealer could not solve the car's problems. Toyota headquarters stonewalled his appeals, he says.

    "There have been significant throttle control and transmission hesitation issues," says Seider, 45, a computer consultant from Roswell, Ga. "I've isolated 15 different rattles in the body work."

    Seider is far from alone. Internet chat rooms such as Edmunds.com Town Hall are littered with complaints from Toyota loyalists about the redesigned Avalon, which went on sale in February 2005.

    The Avalon's launch problems point to a larger issue. To meet demand, Toyota has added factories in North America and thousands of new employees. Executives are worried that Toyota's rapid growth may dilute its quality standards.

    Toyota and Lexus divisions still exceed industry averages in various studies that measure quality. Toyota predicts that the Avalon will score well in J.D. Power and Associates' Initial Quality Study, to be released in June.

    But the quality gap is closing. And Toyota recalls have spiked in the last two years.

    Every production line produces its share of lemons. But Toyota already has issued a string of technical service bulletins to dealers to fix Avalons on the road. Changes are being made on the assembly line. Toyota representatives acknowledge there are some teething problems, but decline to call the Avalon a problem car.

    The Avalon is the Toyota brand's most-expensive car, starting at $27,355 including destination charges. The redesigned 2005 model was embraced by consumers; Toyota sold 95,318 Avalons last year in the United States, up from 36,460 in 2004. Avalon sales peaked in 2000 at 104,078 units. It is assembled at Toyota's Georgetown, Ky., plant, alongside the Camry and Camry Solara.




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    First-year blues

    It's a car-buying axiom that one should never buy a car in its first year of production, before the bugs are worked out. But in recent years Toyota and Honda largely disproved that old saw, delivering nearly bulletproof vehicles from Job 1.

    Now the Avalon redesign is showing that even mighty Toyota can slip up.

    Kevin Clingenpeel, a 37-year-old insurance litigator from Fort Mill, S.C., loved his Avalon for the first 2,000 miles. Then the transmission shifts became erratic, especially in cold weather. The engine developed a persistent knock, which could not be cured by changing grades of gasoline or by using a fuel-injector cleaner.

    "I pulled up next to a Ford F-350, and I could hear my valve train clicking louder than his diesel," said Clingenpeel, whose Avalon is his family's third Toyota.

    Clingenpeel says his dealer gave the car "a wink and a nod" when he brought it in three times for repairs. Clingenpeel then appealed to Toyota headquarters to send out a district service manager. Toyota refused. Now Clingenpeel is looking to sell the car.

    "It's sad because there's a nice car hiding behind all this," Clingenpeel said. "But this is not up to snuff from what I would consider from Toyota."




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    Small irritations

    The Avalon's problems have drawn notice from Consumer Reports magazine, which has for years given the Avalon high marks.

    While still giving the 2005 Avalon its highest scores in most categories, the magazine's overall quality rating for the car was average because the Avalon scored below the Buick LaCrosse, Kia Amanti, Ford Five Hundred and Mercury Montego.

    Anita Lam, data program manager for Consumer Reports' auto test center, said problems with the Avalon cropped up in steering, suspension and body integrity.

    "These are first-year teething problems. We anticipate the second model year will be much better," Lam said.

    Toyota spokesman John Hanson called the Consumer Reports ratings "the sum of small irritations more than anything else."

    But Hanson acknowledged that Toyota has been concerned with the initial wave of quality problems for the car. Toyota's priority has been to find and remedy problems, get the fixes to the production line, and issue technical service bulletins so dealers can fix the faults on vehicles already on the road.

    "The Avalon is the most complex vehicle Toyota Division sells, so just by definition it's a problematic vehicle," Hanson said.

    The Avalon's transmission lurch is especially noticeable in low-speed crawls during rush hour, Hanson said. Previous Avalons had problems shifting smoothly at high speed with high engine revs. Toyota fixed the high-speed lurch by changing software algorithms, but the adjustment caused a low-speed lurch.

    The low-speed problem "is all software," Hanson says.

    Some customers are voting with their feet. In Seider's case, he replaced his wife's Toyota Sienna minivan with a Honda Pilot. He doubts he will replace the Avalon with another Toyota.

    Said Seider: "I am so disappointed in Toyota. I've had previous first-year vehicles, but nothing like this ever happened. Toyota's build quality has declined in recent years, and there seems to be nothing the dealer can do. Toyota has reached a size that they've lost sight of the individual customer."

    You may e-mail Mark Rechtin at [email protected]




    PRINTED FROM: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...mplate=printart


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    Entire contents ©2006 Crain Communications, Inc.

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  4. ScottY

    ScottY New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 1 2006, 09:22 AM) [snapback]247897[/snapback]</div>
    Oh, I remember this. While I was waiting at the dealer's service department, some guy was complaining about problems in his brand new (2005) Avalon. He said he came back multiple times. Acutally, my girlfriend's family just bought a 07 Camry. I'll report back if they have any problems. But I hope not.
     
  5. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(HybridVigor @ May 1 2006, 08:34 AM) [snapback]247903[/snapback]</div>
    Please be aware of the source of this post. Our local GM salesman who comes in every once in a while with little jabs at Toyota and Prius just for his own stimulation.

    I'm not saying that there might not be some problems with the current generation of Avalon but I seriously doubt it represents or forecasts problems with Camry, Toyota in general, or even future production runs of Avalon.

    At least Toyota acknowledges and corrects it's problems. GM's history is to deny and defend until forced to fix their problems.
     
  6. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ May 1 2006, 09:02 AM) [snapback]247912[/snapback]</div>
    A little knarly this morning Doc? What is the old saying about shooting the messenger? :lol: And on the denying until forced issue, how quickly we forget how good ol' Toyota reacted to the engine sludge problem.
     
  7. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    Now Malorn, you know that you consistently seem to go out of your way to take jabs at hybrids, the Prius, and Toyota as a corporation while promoting every other car and company over them. A quick review of your posting history speaks volumes about this. Sometimes I wonder whether you are more interested in attacking Toyota or all the members of this board individually.

    I would have expected Danny, or daniel, maybe even Squid to start a thread saying "Quality issues with the Avalon" or - as is common - directly quoting the article's actual headline. But only you would say in all caps "AVALON QUALITY IS AWFUL" and when I saw that thread title, I didn't even have to see who started it.

    Messengers are protected by Zeus and should not be injured.
    Yellow journalists have no patron saint and deserve what they get.
     
  8. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 1 2006, 09:13 AM) [snapback]247914[/snapback]</div>
    Not shooting anyone. Do you deny anything I said about you? I think it's only fair to share the source of such information so that readers can put it into perspective.
     
  9. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ May 1 2006, 09:33 AM) [snapback]247921[/snapback]</div>
    Very well-stated. However I don't think I usually attack PC members or the Prius as a vehicle. As many of you know I do take issue with the way Toyota uses the Prius to "over-green" its image, much the same way they use their Georgetown KY plant to wrap themselves in the American flag. For the record I have no interest in attacking the members of this board, I am continually entertained, enraged and sometimes even enlightened by reading this board.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ May 1 2006, 09:34 AM) [snapback]247922[/snapback]</div>
    No I don't deny what you said. I have GM in my veins and take great pleasure in any bad news concerning Toyota.
     
  10. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 1 2006, 09:42 AM) [snapback]247924[/snapback]</div>
    A few weeks in the hospital and continuous infusions of Toyota Super Long Life Coolant can rid you of that disease floating around in your veins! :lol:
     
  11. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ May 1 2006, 09:44 AM) [snapback]247927[/snapback]</div>
    I have to admit you got a great chuckle out of me with that. :lol:
     
  12. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Is this Avalon made in the USA? I learned a lesson the hard way when I bought a Sony mini boom box made outside of Japan. I'd always thought of Sony as a top brand. I'd always thought of all Japanese companies as top brand (not counting the early post-war years when Japanese equalled junk.) But this high quality we've gotten used to from Japan seems to apply less to Japanese plants outside of Japan. I made sure my Prius was built in Japan before buying it.
     
  13. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    It also made Autoweek http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...1024/LATESTNEWS. The Camry's also got some (not quite as bad) bad news that I'll post in another thread.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 1 2006, 08:08 AM) [snapback]247937[/snapback]</div>
    Yep. In fact, a number of other Toyota model could be made in the US. Last month, 54.3% of the vehicles Toyota sold in the US were made in North America. See http://www.toyota.com/about/news/corporate...02-1-sales.html.
     
  14. hycamguy07

    hycamguy07 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ May 1 2006, 10:33 AM) [snapback]247921[/snapback]</div>

    LOL TPS, I think Squid must have gotten a job, because he has not been heard from in a while.. :mellow:
     
  15. kDB

    kDB New Member

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    just had to point that out. again.
     
  16. mike0422

    mike0422 New Member

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    Well, I'm fairly new here. Only owned the Prius for 12 days. So far I've saved $40 in gas over my Saturn. I currently own a 99 Camry, 03 Camry, 06 Prius, 00 Saturn and 01 Chevy Silverado Crew. I have owned Toyotas since my Starlet in 81. I've also owned two Chrysler products, two Fords and one previous Chevy. As far as quality goes, I still put Toyota at the top. As far as American companies, I'd put Chevy at the top (from my experience). Each company has it's bumps in the road from time to time. It's the ones that learn from these and correct the problems that get my attention. I'm not a car guy. I don't do the recommended maintenance. I only change the oil. I've only ever had one problem (timing belt broke on the Starlet at over 100k miles) that would have been avoided by scheduled maintenance. So for me Toyota quality lives on dispite the Avalon bump. Oh, I'm helping my mother buy a new Camry this weekend.
     
  17. Marlin

    Marlin New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 1 2006, 09:37 AM) [snapback]247904[/snapback]</div>
    That's a curious statement. The Avalon is the most complex vehicle Toyota Division sells? More complex than the Prius? Really?
     
  18. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I guess we should be "envious" that GM uses yellow to promote E85 to boost its image eh? haha funny.

    You act like Toyota is god and it never makes mistakes. Well, thank you Malorn, we're very well aware of that but it's nice to know you think of Toyota so highly that one mistake is costly.
     
  19. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

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    Why is this discussion taking place in FHOP?

    It belongs in the Other Cars forum.
     
  20. Tempus

    Tempus Senior Member

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    I'm confused who I'm supposed to blame.

    Is this the fault of Toyota or American Workers?