1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

PiP high rolling resistance vs my gen 2

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by Snabbgas, Oct 29, 2015.

  1. Snabbgas

    Snabbgas Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    5
    0
    0
    Location:
    Sweden
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Hello knowledgable forum members!

    I have bought a 2012 PiP a couple months ago. It had about 27500miles on the odo and was in very good shape. It came with 17" Prius wheels but i have replaced them with 15" prius wheels with new Bridgestone Ecopia EP S001 which is their lowest rolling resistance tire available here in Sweden. I have the older EP 150 on my 2008 gen2 which is the older version with slightly higher rolling resistance and this tire comes stock on the PiP here.

    The thing is that the PiP glides considerably worse than the G2 and i am curious if any of you have had the same experience?

    I will have a wheel alignment done eventually as that is the "only" thing i can think of that might be slightly off with the car. It rides good but perhaps not perfect which i must say that my G2 does that have had a full alignment done with shimming of the rear axle by my very knowledgable friend who works at a Toyota dealership.

    The brakes have recently been overhauled by me and my friend to.

    The tires have rolled 1000 plus miles could it be they are not broken in yet?

    I instantly feel a significant difference when i get in the G2 after having driven the PiP for a while and a good friend with a G2 have verified it to.

    The only other thing i can think about are if the secondary planetary gearset in the transmission is causing more losses when gliding but i have been unable to find anything about it.

    Would like to hear your thoughts!

    /Mattias
     
  2. roflwaffle

    roflwaffle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2012
    381
    75
    0
    Location:
    Orange County
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    There's a similar thread not too far back in this forum comparing two pips. IIRC, there was a significant difference between the tires, as well as other smaller differences. Can you do some coast down tests with both vehicles, swap tires, and repeat those test?
     
    bisco likes this.
  3. IanIanIanIan

    IanIanIanIan Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2013
    152
    56
    0
    Location:
    Royal County of Berkshire, UK.
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    I suspect that the PiP has a more aggressive regeneration than the standard Prius. Can anybody confirm or deny?
     
    bisco likes this.
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,703
    38,240
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    When you mention you've recently overhauled the brakes my ears prick up. Try raising the back and make sure back wheels are turning reasonably freely. Modest drag is ok , but if they are fighting you may have misaligned caliper piston. You need to ensure pin on back of pad is BETWEEN piston spokes.

    May or may not be the issue, but worth checking. :)
     
    Potorap and bisco like this.
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,762
    48,974
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    have you tried comparing coasting in neutral, to see if it's the wheels/tyres vs the tranny?

    what are you getting for mpg's without plugging in?

    brakes at 27,500? agree with mendel.

    ian, i think it has been reported to have slightly more aggressive regen.
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,703
    38,240
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Oh, real simple brake check, all four corners: after a good drive, right way feel the wheel hubs. If any are markedly hotter you have drag. Slightly warm is ok.
     
    roflwaffle likes this.
  7. vskid3

    vskid3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    773
    228
    0
    Location:
    Texas
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Tires probably need a little more time to be broken in completely, but I don't think there's enough difference that you would notice it while coasting. What is the tire pressure at for both cars?
     
  8. Snabbgas

    Snabbgas Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    5
    0
    0
    Location:
    Sweden
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Thanks for all feedback!

    To clarify, the brakes we cleaned and lubricated as a preemtive mesure but we also noticed that one glide pin on each rear side were rusted stuck so i have got those replaced along with new disks and pads under warranty.
    The brakes have no binding.

    Close to sidewall on both cars.

    I get a little worse fuel economy on the PiP on my 10mile one way commute if i dont charge. Around 50mpg and about 55mpg on the G2. Basically no P&G on this route more than because of elevation changes.

    I run Toyota 0w-20 in both cars slightly underfilled.

    I feel that pulse and glide dont work very well on the PiP because of the poor glide but it works very well on the G2.

    Is there anyone that have similar experience going from G2 to G3/PiP?
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,703
    38,240
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Odd for a calliper glide pin to seized with such low mileage. Maybe some hidden history on the PIP? Puzzling.
     
  10. Snabbgas

    Snabbgas Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    5
    0
    0
    Location:
    Sweden
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Yes my expert friend thought it was very strange too but i am pretty certain the history are ok. Both other pins looked like new so there must have been some fluke going on there.
     
  11. mmmodem

    mmmodem Senior Taste Tester

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    2,732
    1,703
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Without the HSI on a G2, how would you be able to compare gliding on a G2 to a G3? Someone already mentioned that the regen may be set more aggressive on a G3/PiP. That may account for a difference if you compare letting go of the gas pedal. I just want to make you're not talking about that.

    If I plant my foot perfectly on the gas pedal and the HSI indicates no regen and no power, I glide in the PiP better than anything I've ever driven.
     
  12. vskid3

    vskid3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    773
    228
    0
    Location:
    Texas
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    No arrows on the MFD in the G2 is the same as nothing on the HSI in the G3. Maybe the sweet spot with the pedal is different between the two and OP is having a hard time finding it with the PiP? Have you tried using the different modes (eco, normal, power)?
     
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,703
    38,240
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Oy, one of these days I'll have to pack it in at this forum, won't be able to understand a thing.
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,762
    48,974
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    the gen III made an advancement in computer programming, to take advantage of gen II pulse and glide. so i have found that you cannot accomplish as much improvement, it's harder to hold the glide, and you have to keep the hsi just slightly right of the regen. that being said, i think you might have a more serious problem, if your wheels spin freely, and both cars glide the same in neutral. you should be getting 60 mpg in a pip vs 55 in a gen II.
     
  15. Snabbgas

    Snabbgas Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    5
    0
    0
    Location:
    Sweden
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    To clarify.
    Both cars do NOT glide the same in neutral and i am not talking about how the car glides when the trottle is backed off all the way. I am very familiar with driving a prius, i have been driving our G2 for four years and consider myself a hypermiler having learnt alot from this forum and you guys over the years.
    I practically always drive to maximize mpg or in my case minimize l/100km.

    That beeing said i have a good feeling for these cars by now and what i am after is if anybody here have had a similar feeling in going from a G2-G3/PiP as far as the unassisted/unresisted glide are concerned?
    That is do the PiP glide worse than the G2? If so is it because the second planetary gearset in the transmission or does the PiP pure and simple glide as well as the G2?

    If it is supposed to glide just as well what else could it be? Wheel alignment? Bad transmission oil? Mecanical issue?

    Driving a Prius is what i consider having a really good time but it is not so much fun when i know how well the G2 does at lower speeds
     
  16. Snabbgas

    Snabbgas Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    5
    0
    0
    Location:
    Sweden
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Interesting! Is this well understood how this programming are supposed to work? I definately feel the two cars are alot different to drive and perhaps i have not got the hang of driving the PiP well yet.
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,762
    48,974
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    i don't think so. driving the pip doesn't take much to achieve good mileage. for my own area, i just accelerate a little beyond the eco line, and glide a little beyond the regen line. i get 70 mpg on routes i was getting 65 mpg in my '08. (on the mfd)

    my biggest problem is that i usually plug in, and the car really hates to glide when it has battery power. the slightest touch of the gas pedal sends the hsi bar flying to the right in hv mode, and then it uses the engine to make up the lost kWh.
     
  18. mmmodem

    mmmodem Senior Taste Tester

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    2,732
    1,703
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Well, all I have left is thinner tires on a G2 so it does glide better? I don't know. I don't have enough seat time in a G2 to compare to my PiP.