Featured 2016 RAV4 Hybrid Prices/Spec (incl. Towing)

I'm not sure why
(for those unable to actually read links, there is a link. It contains the 2016 epa's mpg estimates on the LNXh (both fwd and e-awd), Rav4 hybrid, and awd Honda CRV. The CRV is the sales leader in the segment that the Rav4 competes in which is (cute ute).
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All the hwy mpg are nearly the same around 31 mpg, with the e-awd nxh lagging by only 1 mpg. I don't know how the hwy figures would change much with the same hybrid system, unless aerodynamics were significantly better with the RAV4 versus the NXh


The RAV4 hybrid falls between the fwd and awd nxh in city at 34 mpg. They all ride on 225/65R17 tires. Unless you really change weight, or lower the stickiness of the tires, you won't change much. The SE and EX versions of the CRV ride on the same size tires. Without the hybrid system the CRV is at 25mpg on the city, making it 9 mpg behind in city, and 6 behind in combined. YMMV.

To really increase mpg you need to do some things that the c-max and prius v did. These are lower drag cars with lower rolling resistance wheels/tires.

 

Toyota's Hybrid RAV4 Is a Middle Finger to Battery EVs | WIRED
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Maybe he was thinking Japan?
Yea - I'm thinking this author was just excited to have anyone from Toyota talk to him.
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Prius - Japan 1997
Rav4 EV - US 1997
Prius - US 2000

Really the Rav4 EV was more of a leased demo vehicle. Not a good opinion piece in wired.

 

I'm not convinced they are wrong. But things do change. I remember not too long ago the incentives for reducing electricity consumption. Actually, this decade.


"It’s a reasonable position, says Stephanie Brinley, a senior analyst with IHS Automotive. “You get more range, you get a much quicker fueling situation, so it’s much more similar to what we experience with a gasoline engine.” That’s why Toyota, along with fuel cell believers like Honda and Nissan, is helping develop hydrogen fueling stations in California and Japan, working to make fueling easier and cheaper.

That’s no guarantee of success, Brinley says: It all depends on whether people are willing to try a new type of fuel, and pick that over charging at home. “Consumer’s a wild card.”

 

Link? I'd love to see what she's talking about
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Really you posted the bad wired opinion pirv, her quote was in that.. Click the link, you see the Discontinued Rac4 Ev and the mirai.
Toyota RAV4 EV is Discontinued | Find a Used Toyota RAV4 EV

I can't see that many people interested in a RAV4 EV interested in that mirai they are pushing, but maybe if they linked to the future RAV4 hydrid it would make more sense.

 

I think there are still substantial powertrain gains that will come from applying the lessons from the gen 4 Prius to the Camry and these SUVs that seem to share its engine and hybrid system.

For example, are they using exhaust gas heat recovery yet? I didn't see any mention of it in the Toyota press release for powertrain improvements in the 2012 Camry which introduced the present version of this powertrain.

In 2011 the Camry hybrid was 35/31 (city/highway). In 2012 it became 43/39. The 2015 Honda Accord is now 50/47 and the 2016 Chevrolet Malibu is 48/47. If you map the Accord and Malibu numbers back to a RAV4 hybrid it would be something near 40 mpg rather than 33ish.

 

Release information from Toyota USA pressroom
2016 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid Product Information | Toyota

 

sorry ..... i truncated my thoughts way too much. Steveee's reference to hydrogen being "cheaper" was what i was hoping to find a link to .... I mean, never mind the trillion-dollar infrastructure necessary - even present-day costs of natural gas to hydrogen reforming create a liter price that seems unacceptable. The whole premise of cheap hydrogen turns on natural gas remaining very inexpensive. That just can't go on forever - & yet the present day natural gas low price still yields an expensive liter of hydrogen when it finally gets compressed & delivered to the vehicle.
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same platform, same powertrain, why should it be different?

 

Drag cd?
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The Rav4 is shorter than the NX. There is a 350lb. difference between the non-hybrid models.

 

A few things here.

Can hydrogen be cheaper than gasoline? Sure if gasoline gets expensive. Can it be cheaper than electriicty per mile in a vehicle? Only if electricity is taxed a lot more than hydrogen, or hydrogen is subsidized much more. I'm not sure if Steveee was saying one or the other. Hydrogen in california is free, free I tell you to vehicles buyers because of subsidies, and can remain lower as long as manufacturers and/or the government make it so. Say there are 20,000 fcv, it cost $13/kg and they take 250 kg/year, that is only $65M/year - less than the US R&D budget for hydrogen and fuel cells. As long as the numbers are so low (<1000 today) its the stations and the vehicle subsidies that are much more expensive. Even always optimistic carb expects less than 12,000 fcv on California roads at the start of 2019. That can't go on for ever, or even for much of a percentage of the fleet in the US, but it sure can go on forever in Japan or more of a control economy that wants it.

Even with free fuel the cars plus fuel are fairly expensive. The DOE expects they will stay more expensive for what you get (yes a fuel cell camry is less than an electric mercedes S, but not on a comprable car) until volume gets to be about 500,000. At that point DOE expects short run electrics to be cheapest (leaf), then hydrogen, then hybrids, then long run (>200+ mile) bevs. Can fcv get sales up that high very fast? Why no. It will take at least a decade and technical breakthroughs. DOE was thinking around 2020, but if it is 2030 not 2020, then maybe batteries get those advances and long run bevs are cheaper than fcv. Either way they are both a lot more than a prius today, but may not be tomorrow.

That wired article was just so full of misinformation. If anything the rav4 hybrid is long over due and could have lived along side a rav4 ev. Toyota never really supported the gen I or gen II rav4 ev, and contract has ended. The compliance replacement mirai has leased 34 so far this year in the US, and will ship 100-200 this year. Unlike the profit they made on the tesla stock/engineering/trade toyota is willing to lose a lot on the mirai. If we listen to the leaked rumors, Toyota that now has made about $600M on the tesla deal (profit on stock less loss on compliance cars) was low balling tesla on what it would pay for batteries, while tesla had a battery shortage because panasonic did not build to tesla's sales estimates assuming they were overly optimistic. Toyota probably should have partnered on the Lexus NX with tesla and released it in 2016 or 2017 when the gigafactory was ready. Instead they seem to be saying they don't expect sales of fcv or bevs in the next 5 years in the US.

Weight, yes you would expect a mpg or 2. What is the cdA of each, I thought they were similar.

 

Ditto for mine.

DBCassidy

 

Going uphill: Tesla passes a bunch of SUVs stuck in the snow (video) : TreeHugger
here's a pure ev passing others in Norway snow getting stuck - yes - SUV's getting stuck ... stupid non-ev drivers - just goes to show ya ... what we think, & what we know - some times don't cross paths

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I averaged 29 mpg on my 2002 Rav4 AWD ,,, I dont see any hype to pick up an additional 2 mpg for this kind of money