Visual Tables of Gen4 Package Combinations

Thanks for that explanation. Makes a lot of sense. Of course, I'd be going the other way around, and have extra room in the wheel well, going from 17's to 15's. Hopefully it's not a big deal to make that adjustment, as I really enjoy the Prius's tight turning radius on my Gen II.

 

From my wife's experience with Audi, I would say some of the luxury brands too. We got one of those problematic A3 turbodiesels, but even the high end model had very limited option packages (though apparently they will give you a huge choice of colors--if you are willing to pay huge premiums)



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Vike--You're not missing anything. I just understand the 17" wheels--also wider--cut down of gas mileage by some infinitesimal amount. Plus based on my wife's experience with big wheels/low profile tires on her Audi, they tend to lose pressure faster, thus tripping the tire warning lights more frequently. I'm slightl annoyed at having to choose the lesser annoyance of two things I don't want, while paying for the thing.

 

Pre-2008, the Volvo site had an a la cart build system with two different level lists. To get things off the top list, which included cruise control, meant paying a one time fee.

The package and trim systems save costs and lower QA issues, and the savings sometimes get passed to the consumer.

 

Our gen3 came with the lower profile, wider 215/45R17, and the greater turning radius. I get a sense of the latter in parking lots, especially the designed-barely-to-spec., newer lots: I have troubles, I have no idea how a Crown Vic would manage.

Regarding fuel economy, the consensus among owners is a drop of 2~3 mpg due to the 17" tires. My experience, going from 215/45R17 Michelin Pilots (on the heavy OEM alloys), to 195/65R15 Michelin X-Ice2 (on lighter Corolla steel rims), the mpg stays more-or-less the same.

That said, a lot of owners with 15" tires swap them out for the 215/45R17 with no ill effects, basically because the clearances are generous enough, and the width difference so trivial, that it doesn't matter.

Also, anyone telling you to ask the mechanic to "adjust the stops" is shooting from the hip, lol. It doesn't work like that.

 

Aha - so it's an objection to the 17" wheels, which sounds like I'd share. I'm waiting for a look at a 3T/4T - those foglights are going to have to impress the hell out of me to tip the scales back to the 3T, since at this point everything else favors (for me) the 3 w/ATP. My wife's iffy on ATP, but I make the argument that those safety features are going to be standard in the next few years and we plan to keep this car for a long time. I assume it's easy enough to turn off the HUD and ignore the moonroof (we're not very tall), and I'm no fan of Softex or the 17" wheels, especially after kgall's comments.

 

Unless Toyota's done a turnaround, if the fog lights are like third gen, I don't think you'll be impressed by them. On our 3rd gen I click them on/off occasionally, play this game I call "can I tell the difference".

 

Yes. Totally shooting from the hip. It's an old school hip, so perhaps things have changed.

At least energyandair understood what I was trying to say and did so better than I would have.. Perhaps it's done differently on the Prius, but the spec sheet for the 2016 Prius lists the turning circle diameter for 15s as 33.5' where it is 35.4' for the 17s. That's almost 2 ft wider diameter. There is a clear difference in the amount of steering wheel travel between the two models and that it's restricted on the 17s. It may be something that isn't necessary for those who will never put on chains. It may be that there is plenty of room for an extra 2cm in width, It's something toyota does when they add 17s.

I don't mind be laughed at, but I'd rather learn. If you feel there's something inaccurate in my logic, please help.

 

Ok, fair enough. I appreciate I tend to pile on.

How about then accompany speculation with a disclaimer: avoid directing folks on a fool's mission, to ask their mechanic to adjust something that doesn't exist.

Ours has the wider radius, due to wider tires, I understand that. Still, the clearances are not that tight: people with 15" OEM swap to 17", reduce the clearance, but no where near zero.

 

If they are like the gen2's, they aren't even real fog lights. If they did help in fog, you couldn't tell because the mandatory on headlights just get reflected back at you in any fog that you want fog lights for. To be fair this isn't a Prius only condition in regards to "fog" lights on American cars.

On just such an occasion, I tried just using the parking lights. On my first car, a '86 park Avenue, the parking lights could work as fogs in a pinch. On the Prius, it became the "are they on" game.

 

Are packages likely to change in the 2017 model year? There are at least a few things about the packages that make absolutely no sense to me and I'm thinking about waiting for the 2017s to see if the packages change a bit. I don't have a clue what they've done in the past as after I bought my 2004 I stopped paying attention.

 

i don't think they change the packages much at the refresh, and that won't be 17, it will be 19. the packages are organized to upsell, not make sense. at the top, where you can't get everything, it's due to weight.

 

At the moment, they're making me keep my '04. I'm not sure that's an upwell from Toyota's point of view.

 

lol, probably not. but they consider the whole market, not one individual. i don't like it either, but it seems to be working pretty well for them overall.

 

Am I missing something? Would not the flat go where the spare was? Or does this assume that the spare was a donut and the flat could not fit?

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On the subject of wipers in general. I've had great luck with Rain-X. With a careful, and maintained, treatment I don't even need wipers. The wind just blows the droplets off. Sounds daft, I know, but it works. Recently I've seen comments that paste wax works as well or better than Rain-X. And it's cheaper.

 

The full sized tire could not fit into the space allowed for a smaller temporary spare.

 

First off, per krmcg, yeah: a regular size flat tire will not quite fit in the space a temp spare occupied.

But I think the context of my posting was for people considering getting a spare (either temporary or full size) when they've bought a model that doesn't come with a temp spare, has the compressor kit. You definitely can't just drop a temp spare into those; you have to pull out all the pieces in that zone, and purchase other pieces that are compatible with the temp spare.

So short of doing that, if you just get a temp spare, it's got to ride on top of the hatch floor somehow.

 

Amen. Amen. Praise the Lord. Amen. Those Toyota marketing guys are complete idiots. If someone is buying the top of the line model, they want it ALL! It should come with every last option available. Who are these dolts?


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Oh, of course. That makes perfect sense now. I don't know about others, but it is completely stupid for Toyota to save a few cubic inches/pounds and then force the buyer to give up MORE than that hauling around a tire in the cargo area. Another monumental Toyota fail.


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I think he did. If you look at the three videos on this site the guy he was talking with said that the suspension in the 4T was stiffer, to make it a bit more like a sports car. It is supposed to have improved handling. At least that's what I think I heard. Right now, Toyota crap is spilling out of my ears.

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One has to wonder what a dealer could do to add some things. Fog lights seem to be easy enough. Would not the dealer just sell them? Power seats and such might be harder. But the spare tire should also be easy. The frame has to be the same for the 4 and 4T so there should be a way for the dealer to get a spare in there. Likewise the 17" wheels. Just put them on! Overly simplistic?


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Yeah, I gave up on U.S.A cars when the dealer told me that the fix for my Lincoln Continental was 10 gal of gasoline and a match. That was the end for me. U.S.A. manufacturers have never gotten another dime from me. I'd not buy another Toyota except that the Prius is CLEARLY the best car out there, for reliability and economy. Other than that, I'd love to see the scurvy rats of Toyota driven to the sea

 

what bothers you about toyota more than any other corporation?

 

Makes sense for the manufacturer. With the attitude "the customer is always wrong" they are focused on the bottom line ... not customer satisfaction. It is far easier to manage the build for half a dozen models with a few options packages than to do it the old way, where you had an unlimited list of options and they really BUILT the car.

The luxury brands let you have whatever you want ... but you pay for it. Watch a show on TV ... "How it's Made: Dream Cars" and your eyes will bug out. Guys with wrenchs put those things together a bolt at a time and SIGN the engine! Costs a damn fortune but that's the dilema of our times: pay for it or get whatever the hell they are selliing.



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I call Toyota one of the "Outlaw Companies". It comes down to being burned by them, as miuch as how unethical they are. The Prius is a wonderful car. It had a few problems handled by recall ... the accellerator problem in particular. But then there was the issue with the HID headlights in the upgraded package. It came down to my wife wanting the JBL sound system (she is a music teacher and commutes two hours a day) and we had to get the HID headlights to get the JBL sound system. (Sounding familiar?)

So there was a BIG problem with the lights. I squaked about it but the dealer said that I had to bring the car in with the lights NOT WORKING to show him. Wth? They are only open in the daytime. Am I supposed to drive to them at night and run the car all night until they open? Absurd. The dealer, and Toyota denied there was a problem. Then the NHTSA got involved. It turned out that the problem was worse than anyone realized. I had a single headlamp turn off while driving. Others reported total failure while driving... and running off the road. (You can go to the NHTSA website and read all about it.) So I filed a complaint and started getting updates.

There were meetings in Washington (minutes on line) where Toyota continually denied any problem. THEN, there was a single meeting recorded but no minutes taken. Just the date of the meeting. Toyota finally admitted there was a problem they had known about since the car shipped and offered to replace the headlights under these conditions:

1) $200 per headlight (down from the original quote of $1800 each)
2) It had to be done by the Toyota Dealer

I talked with the Toyota Customer rep and he said: "That's the best deal you are going to get. Take it or leave it."

Then the owners filed a class action law suit and after a lot of fussing Toyota settled and agreed to replace the headlights for free --- IF the car was under some arbitrary milage. (Mine was not, by that time. Oh, and I even bought an extended warrenty, because my wife would drive the car almost exclusively. The dealer refused to honor the warrenty.) But wait, there's more.

Remember that I had been taking the car to the dealer to fix this since the first week I owned the car? The settlement stipulated the milage AS OF THE FIRST TIME THE PROBLEM WAS REPORTED. Ah, so now it is the dealer who screwed me, which explains why the dealer was the only one allowed to be involved with this. The dealer never recorded (or expunged) any record of my reporting the problem. So I was out of luck.

I finally bought two bulbs on Amazon (about $20 each) and paid my mechanic about $180 TOTAL to put them in.

Toyota is an Outlaw Company ... the tears and wailing of the CEO on TV some years back not withstanding. Tears are cheaper than recalls. Apologies are cheaper than making it right.

I now have a failing display module and the replacement cost is quoted at about $4500. So it is time for a new car. I was all fingers and toes crossed that I would find that a Honda or something was good now. However, Prius is still the most reliable so, not being one to cut off my nose ... I'm looking at a new Prius. The best I can do is avoid the same dealer and be dilllegent about not letting the dealer do any paid work.

FWIW, I'm not really as monomanical as I sound I have lists of companies and products which are really good or really bad. Rain-X really works, for example. Fluke makes excellent test equipment. Harbor Freight is a crap company selling crap products. Like that. There is not much a consumer can control these days ... but I can still exercise some small bit of choice.

 

mike091020 said:
"One has to wonder what a dealer could do to add some things. Fog lights seem to be easy enough. Would not the dealer just sell them? Power seats and such might be harder. But the spare tire should also be easy. The frame has to be the same for the 4 and 4T so there should be a way for the dealer to get a spare in there. Likewise the 17" wheels. Just put them on! Overly simplistic?"

When I bought my 2010, and started reading PriusChat daily, there was frequent discussion about Port Of Entry (POE) installed options. As I recall, even leather seats. I don't recall reading anything about POE installed option in a very long time. Is that still a possibility?
Agreeing with mike, if there is still a POE option, fog lights and 17" wheels, as well as other options would seem to be an easy solution.