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Whose running on E-85?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by jmcclun, May 10, 2006.

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  1. jmcclun

    jmcclun New Member

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    We have E-10 around here but are starting to see E-85 in some stations. Was wondering who is using it and how does it run? I know it is less MPG, etc. but does the Prius run ok on it?
     
    #1 jmcclun, May 10, 2006
  2. nmrickie

    nmrickie Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PRomIthiUS @ May 10 2006, 07:41 PM) [snapback]253233[/snapback]</div>
    No. The Prius (like most cars) isn't designed to run on E85.
     
    #2 nmrickie, May 10, 2006
  3. jonlink

    jonlink New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PRomIthiUS @ May 10 2006, 09:41 PM) [snapback]253233[/snapback]</div>
    Do not run it in your Prius!
    E85 is designed for use in flex-fuel vehicles. IIRC, all flex-fuel vehicles have yellow gas caps to clearly differentiate to the driver.
     
    #3 jonlink, May 10, 2006
  4. mdh

    mdh New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jonlink @ May 10 2006, 06:45 PM) [snapback]253235[/snapback]</div>
    i wonder what it would take to convert our prius into E-85 and the cost? i've heard it takes abut $100 to convert a car....
     
    #4 mdh, May 10, 2006
  5. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mdh @ May 10 2006, 09:01 PM) [snapback]253241[/snapback]</div>
    That would be for a car without a bladder inside its fuel tank. Use E10 and be happy until factory flex-fuel hybrids are available.
     
    #5 richard schumacher, May 10, 2006
  6. hb06

    hb06 Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PRomIthiUS @ May 10 2006, 05:41 PM) [snapback]253233[/snapback]</div>
    You might be interested in this article from AutoInsider on Chrysler and E85.
    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../608100373/1148
     
    #6 hb06, Oct 19, 2006
  7. Alric

    Alric New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mdh @ May 10 2006, 09:01 PM) [snapback]253241[/snapback]</div>
    What would be the point? It would lower your mileage. The best thing you can do with corn is eat it..
     
    #7 Alric, Oct 19, 2006
  8. Kev1000000

    Kev1000000 New Member

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    There has been quite a few posts about this...

    I wonder how many people are putting E85 in their Prius, or any car for that matter, thinking that it wont harm anything.
     
    #8 Kev1000000, Oct 19, 2006
  9. Skwyre7

    Skwyre7 What's the catch?

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kev1000000 @ Oct 19 2006, 11:34 AM) [snapback]335051[/snapback]</div>
    Cheap! did, but he knows better now. ;)
     
    #9 Skwyre7, Oct 19, 2006
  10. daronspicher

    daronspicher Active Member

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    More interesting will be to see exactly how this manifests itself as a problem.

    The alcohol eats out the seals somewhere and whooooooof the whole car goes up in flames on the side of the road?

    Does the insurance have to buy a new car if that happens? Maybe hard for them to prove that you were just being stupid.
     
    #10 daronspicher, Oct 19, 2006
  11. Cheap!

    Cheap! New Member

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    From what I learned it just wasn’t worth it. I tried it because I was told it was a flex fuel vehicle by a salesman the year before I got my car. I used it because I wanted to use less foreign oil. Then Priuschat members were nice enough to let me know I messed up without condemning me. I ran the fuel out as fast as I could and since then I have had no problems.

    That might be the biggest problem of E85. You can use it and it works without any problems and all the while it is eating away at your cars insides. Suddenly it is too late and you have a problem.

    I am not saying E85 is bad if you have the right equipment, but it doesn’t have the same energy output regular gas does and so your mpg suffers too. However, it is a better alternative then buying oil from other countries.

    I think our best hope is for Plug-ins and solar panels on your roof. Why pay for consumables that we just don’t need anymore? Just drive on solar power! :D
    (Enter Darell)
     
    #11 Cheap!, Apr 17, 2007
  12. cc9150

    cc9150 New Member

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    the owner's manual is the SOLE source of such information, ALWAYS.
     
    #12 cc9150, Apr 17, 2007
  13. Macomb

    Macomb Junior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PRomIthiUS @ May 10 2006, 09:41 PM) [snapback]253233[/snapback]</div>
    I have filled up (not from a completely empty tank like some on here do, but three pips) with E85 when I have been near a station that offers it. My Prius was delivered in January, 2006. I've probably run a half dozen or so tanks of E85 (again, folks should not assume 100%). I've also run at least two tanks of E10 (again, some fuel remained in the tank from the prior fueling). The car MPG does drop significantly, but I've had no Check Engine Light, nor any other problems. The car runs fine. If we as a nation are ever to break our dependency on Middle East oil, we have to stimulate alternate fuel/energy markets. Just as those who buy and drive Priuses have done, it is important to recognize that while corn-derived EtOH may not be the most 'economical fuel' in the true environmental sense, we can not stimulate EtOH production without purchasing it in the first place.

    Some on here have cried gloom and doom over my choice to use E85/E10 some of the time, but it's my free choice. The mindset of many is to "sue, Sue, SUE" if it doesn't work out in the long run. That's not my temperament or thought process. I alone am responsible for decisions that I make and I alone will bear consequences, if any! Amazing to me how many folks on here operate under two principles: 1. they're omniscient and 2. they can make better choices for me than I can.

    I'm happy with my choices, my car is running just fine thank you (over 12,000 miles on it and it runs like new). I'm not some pioneer/hero/early adapter, just a bloke who likes new technology and who will do his part via the free market economy. I'm really surprised at the number of people on here who get their panties in a bind over choices that I make. I'm posting merely to share my decision/experiences. I ask NO ONE to take any responsibilty for my actions. I ask NO ONE to follow my lead. I am presenting my experience and decision for anyone who cares to read it. Enlightening comments are always appreciated. Inflammatory comments do not add value.

    Incidentally for the poster who suggested that I would sell a vehicle with hidden defects to some poor unsuspecting person, I resent the affront to my integrity and good character. I keep cars for ten years. I donate them in 'as is/where is' condition to the Kidney Car Program. The value has always been nominal when Kidney Foundation sends them to auction.
     
    #13 Macomb, Apr 17, 2007
  14. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Macomb @ Apr 17 2007, 08:36 AM) [snapback]424544[/snapback]</div>
    Considering the topic of this thread, too bad there isn't a "Liver Car Program" for your donation. ;)

    Tom
     
    #14 qbee42, Apr 17, 2007
  15. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Macomb @ Apr 17 2007, 07:36 AM) [snapback]424544[/snapback]</div>
    Consider it an afront if you will, but I simply suggested that I hoped the integrity you expressed in not suing should your car fail also extended to the sale of the vehicle when you were finished with it. You failed to respond to that comment in the thread where it originated.

    Here's the original thread:
    http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=31849

    Here's my exact comment:
    And any way you slice this you are completely in an experimental mode by using E85...I asked you if you had any data or science at all to suggest that using E85 is safe and you failed to respond to that.

    My panties are not wadded. I'm not personally bothered that you want to experiment on your own car. But your posts thus far have shown little acknowledgement that you could be doing serious damage to the car nor have you expressed words of caution that others NOT try this unless they're completely willing to accept such damage and assume all costs for fixing it. And that's what I've tried to do...point out that this is not recommended and for good reason.

    I've done the same regarding additional battery capacity. I'm very familiar with others who've added extra batteries to their Prius. Those folks were completey informed of the potential risks. They acknowledged the experimental nature and even withheld critical information required for implementation to discourage others from trying to do the same. When folks have come on PC asking about adding battery capacity I tell them the same thing I've said in the E85 threads. I can be done, it has been done, it's not recommended, it's potentially dangerous to your health (Ok, E85 probably isn't dangerous to your health!), and you shouldn't do it unless you have the experience and knowledge in dealing with high voltage electronics...and if you had enough knowledge and experience you probably wouldn't be asking here.

    Now, for all I know you may have extensive knowledge and experience on how E85 interacts with all the various plastics and rubber components and how the ECU is programmed to handle the necessary adjustment to a much richer fuel/air mix. And maybe you've perused all the various Prius forums and discussed with those with extensive technical knowledge and made your decision fully informed. If so, then great, I applaud your experimentation as I applaud those who first added extra battery capacity, but please try to avoid the implication that this is something safe for others to do.

    IMO, with using E85 only in partially empty tanks and only intermittently that the risk of damage is pretty small, but I still question that any benefit you percieve is worth the potential risk...that's my take and clearly yours is different...but others need to realize the full implications lest they be led to think it's OK...and that's my main jist...not to slam you personally.
     
    #15 efusco, Apr 17, 2007
  16. Alric

    Alric New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cheap! @ Apr 17 2007, 01:02 AM) [snapback]424483[/snapback]</div>
    No it's not. The corn used to distill the ethanol was fertilized, harvested and processed using fossil fuels from other countries. Due to ethanol's poor energy balance there is an energy cost of 1:1, or very close by volume, of ethanol. Add the lower mpg and the conclusion is that at this point, there is no national security benefit from ethanol.
     
    #16 Alric, Apr 17, 2007
  17. larkinmj

    larkinmj New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Oct 19 2006, 03:16 PM) [snapback]335201[/snapback]</div>
    Remember the guy who posted on PC recently asking if anyone knew about any Prius fires? We thought he might be an insurance investigator. Maybe that was about someone who put E85 in a Prius.
     
    #17 larkinmj, Apr 17, 2007
  18. chogan

    chogan New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ Apr 17 2007, 09:40 AM) [snapback]424567[/snapback]</div>
    That's my understanding as well. There may be some modest substitution among fossil fuel types, but the net fossil fuel reduction from corn-based ethanol appears small at best and may be zero. If ethanol from cellulose ever becomes eonomically viable, that's a different story, and as we heard in earlier threads here, what we really want to use is biologically produced butanol (a 1-to-1 substitute for gasoline with none of the drawbacks of ethanol). The most positive spin I could put in current E85 use is that facilities producing corn-based ethanol now ought to be able to convert to more sensible feedstock later. So maybe you're helping build capacity.

    For marine uses, plain old E10 has caused substantial problems with ruined tanks and engines. And yes, the damage sometimes took years to surface, and occured in large part because ethanol slowly reacted with fuel system components (particularly fuel tanks) that were not designed to be in contact with ethanol. There's no way I'd knowingly put the wrong chemical in the tank of the Prius, even if apparent damage is zero in the short run.
     
    #18 chogan, Apr 17, 2007
  19. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kev1000000 @ Oct 19 2006, 11:34 AM) [snapback]335051[/snapback]</div>
    In other words, how many stupid folks buy the prius. Maybe 1/4 of 1% ?
     
    #19 hill, Apr 17, 2007
  20. revel8r

    revel8r New Member

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    Ok. Here's my plight that applies directly to this thread. And yes, I totally admit guilt or whatever, but want to get past that and back to the matter at hand.

    Pulled up to a gas station in DC and saw a separate nozzle for E85. Saw no warning signs next to it then started to fill the tank with E85. About halfway into it, I noticed a green and yellow sticker next to the nozzle saying E85 is for flex fuel cars only... Ugh.

    I proceeded to take the car to Williamsburg (about a 200 mi trip). About 7-8 mpg off from the usual fuel efficiency. I got back on the road and about 5 minutes in, the check engine light turns on. So I drive the car for another 5 minutes to a Toyota dealership.

    The service guy was grumpy in the first place, and proceeded to be completely gloom and doom about it all. So if I flush the system and replace with fresh regular gas (even detergent fuel), am I still totally toast even though my first use of E85 was limited to about 220 miles?

    I guess I'll find out soon enough. And I guess I'm fishing for some glimmer of encouraging news...
     
    #20 revel8r, Jun 21, 2009
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