PiP vs standard

o/p, i think i've changed my mind.

 

Just to add to the list:

Very slow acceleration (not that I race it or anything, just want to be able to keep up with traffic without having to push the peddle further than a normal car. The regular Prius also is slow in this regard);

EV range is what I consider poor. It should have been at least 20 miles, but who am I say/complain about it.

Very Slow Charging rate. I think the rate of charge was 2.2 in the PIP vs other vehicles I have seen as 6.0. That why it takes so long to charge a tiny battery.

Starting price should be a little lower (if purchasing new).


On the plus side, if a person can find a used one, they should be able to find them at a pretty good deal vs a regular prius. Seems as though, consumers are not informed of the PIP vs regular prius, or the EV was too poor to be considered as an option hence the terrible resale value.


iPhone ?

 

I was comparing the PiP vs. the 3rd gen Prius.

Neither are fast, but the PiP is comparable to the 3rd gen Prius in this regard, so it's not a plus or minus for either of them. Both are just under 10 seconds (9.8 to be exact), which is what I consider fine. (The 1st gen was something like 13 seconds, and I found that too slow.)

Well, the EV range is way better than the 3rd gen Prius.

The 3rd gen Prius can't charge off the grid at all.

The point being, the only viable reason for someone to prefer the regular 3rd gen Prius over the Plug-in is to get a spare tire. Just how important is a spare tire to you?

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For the record, I'm not even a rabid Plug-in fan, so perhaps I'm not as biased as some may be in this sub-forum. In fact, the only reason I bought the Prius Plug-in was because I wanted to buy a used Prius, but the only one I liked with the trim package I wanted for a decent price was the Plug-in. The inexpensive used Priuses available were either too old (2010-2011) or were base models, and the Prius v was actually too small in terms of leg room. (The v actually has less legroom than the regular Prius and the Prius Plug-in, despite having way more cargo space.)

I ended up spending a few thousand CAD $ more than I was originally expecting, but I got the Technology Package I liked, and the car was in immaculate condition with very low mileage. It worked out well for me though, since I work 15 km away from my home, all city driving, and it turned out my workplace would let me use their 120 V outlets to charge my car. Perfect. I charge at home at night at low time-of-use rates before the trip to work in the morning, and then I charge my PiP at work during working hours before the trip home. I also started to occasionally work at a secondary workplace, and it turns out they have a 2-station free EVSE charger in their parking lot because one of the execs there drives an EV. The second spot is always open though.

And I've found that a couple of the downtown parking lots have free EVSEs and the local zoo allows free use of the 120 V outlets. One of the local Home Depots also has dedicated EV/PHEV parking spots with 120 V outlets.

While I think it could make sense that a bigger battery could add benefits even if you don't plug it in, I don't think I've ever seen any real world evidence of that.

Is there evidence to support that?

 

only my own anecdotal evidence, and fill up data in the spreadsheet. but high 60's, to 70mpg tanks without a wall charge seems to be a bit higher than most gen3's.
i also think li-on helps over nimh, but again, no evidence.

 

It's easy to lose perspective of the past when looking back long afterward. 1st gen was 12.5 seconds, the same as many of the vehicles on the road at that time. The 2001 Prius replaced my 1994 Taurus, which had the very same 0-60 time and was considered pretty much ordinary then. Too slow now, but back then not.

 

Actually, I owned that car. The speed could indeed be called ordinary, but nonetheless I still felt it was pretty slow even then, especially given the price. The 2004 I got 3 years later was a huge improvement. I remember somebody from Toyota saying that part of the reason Toyota increased the power for the 2004 model was to placate North American buyers.

However, the bigger reason I got rid of that car was because the rear seats didn't fold down. It was really irritating, esp. since in the European model the seats did fold down.

BTW, at that time, I lived in a downtown Toronto condo townhouse, with a shared garage with my neighbour. Given that my Prius (Type R ) was quite rare at the time, I was shocked one day when I went into the garage to find this:

 

I haven't noticed any benefit without plugging in, unless someone's commute includes a long downward slope to recharge their battery.

I see the PIP battery indicator reverts to the regular one found in the regular Prius.

I get anywhere from 42 to 55 mpg, but usually 45 to 47 mpg, without plugging in.

I would like to hears others chime in on this subject.



iPhone ?

 

No charge MPG from my PIP has consistently been a little better than my 2010.

 

I think people forget the PHEV or PiP comes standard with features other Prius do not necessarily have, such as Navigation, App Suite, etc. That may not be a big deal, but it is worth something!

 

Real world the differences are likely marginal for most people. As already mentioned, a steep downhill commute would benefit from having higher recharge capacity. When I bought my PiP, it came without an EVSE so I couldn't charge. Even so, I was able to experience some EV when I added 4 miles of range from regenerative braking.

Li-ion chemistry is more efficient at charge / discharge than NiMH, but this difference is insignificant due to the charging limits Toyota puts on both batteries. It's at the top end of a charge cycle that the difference in efficiency becomes more pronounced, but neither battery type is charged near the top of capacity.

 

Heh. I got asked about the PiP today. It turns out the people asking were only interested in the PiP because it can make use of the HOV lanes in the GTA. Specifically, there is one HOV lane on the highway on the way to work they could use if they had a PHEV or EV.

However, I recommended they NOT buy the 2015 PiP. Here's hoping the 2017 gets that increased range, and other improvements we've been asking for.

 

If you can find a pre-owned PIP Advanced technology package at the right miles and price I would say go for it. I love the additional features on mine, improved sound system, heads up display, larger nav screen, radar cruise control and soft-tex seats. I paid $16,500 for mine with 26,100. Model year 2013. The decision was easy for me with this price, mileage and features. They are out there, just keep looking.

Whatever you decide good luck!

 

Seems like a great price for such a new car with all the bells and whistles. I would have liked lane keep assist and radar cruise. While I've never had any close calls, I have had some roadtrips where I was getting extremely sleepy. I think the technology could save lives.

I would say now is a good time to buy used since gas prices are so low. Perhaps a better time is when HOV access expires and everyone dumps the car.

If buying new though, waiting for the 2nd gen PiP is the way to go.

 

Agreed. I would have waited but I wanted the HOV sticker and I knew it would be gone by the time the new PiP would be available. My family have owned the 1st-Gen Prius, 2nd-Gen Prius, Prius C, Prius v, and currently own the 3rd-Gen and PiP. Though the 3rd-Gen feels a bit nimbler than the PiP, the PiP feels more solid on the road and seems a bit quieter too. Perhaps these are purely coincidental feelings or even incorrect, but overall I prefer driving the PiP for everyday commuting more than any other Prius iteration - I haven't test-driven the 4th-Gen model yet, but my wife is VERY interested in a 2016 Four or Four Touring so I think we'll sell her 2009 Prius P3...

 

Yes, I had a 2010 Prius and I replaced it with a 2012 Prius Plug-in, and I consistently get higher mileage from my PiP than from my non-PiP. The larger, LiIon battery of the PiP improves mileage in standard hybrid driving mode. It can store and release more energy.

The worry is that the cost of replacing the LiIon pack will be prohibitive when the battery finally dies. However, it will need to degrade substantially before that matters. It can lose 80% capacity and still have the brand-new capacity of a standard Prius Hybrid battery. Also, the battery has a 160,000 mile warranty in CARB states.

 

Unfortunately mine does not have lane keep assist or "blind spot monitor." Would love to have those features. The advanced technology package also has automatic on LED headlamps. Love the clear white light!

As with anything, price is a consideration. There are some great deals out there if one is willing to be patient and keep looking. Something will always come along.

 

Wow! Killer price. I got mine (basically the same specs) for US $22000 (at the current exchange rate) for Toyota CPO last year with 18000 miles for a 2012 model. I've got about 27000 miles on it now after a year.

How much were the regular Prius vehicles going for with the same specs?

$16500 is significantly less than what a regular Prius of that vintage with the same specs would have cost, but I got my PiP mainly because I couldn't find a 2012+ (for the entertainment system features) with other extra bells and whistles in a regular Prius anywhere, unless I bought new. And I had to buy a car then as I was renting at the time. Had up-spec non-Plug-in Priuses existed, judging by the market at the time, I would have guessed that by current exchange rates, with those features it would have been in the $19000 range, so I basically paid a US$3000 premium to get the Plug-in. Actually, there were lesser packages I could have considered, but even those would have been only about US$4000 less, and they didn't exist either with such low mileage in the 2012+ vintage.

I guess the problem with the used Prius market is commonly high mileage and older models, because they last long? Plus, around here, people seem to favour the lower end trims.

 

Junk yard batteries around $1500.

 

Do we have any data on the life of the battery in the PIP? Anyone with over 200,000 miles on their PIP have any comments?

 

i don't think we've seen much more than 100,000 miles so far. but keep in mind, it's a phev, not a bev. you're not really stressing the battery to any extent.