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Vacuum pump running constantly and rattling?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by brick, Jun 8, 2012.

  1. brick

    brick Active Member

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    I have another "fun" Prius behavior question for the gurus. I had the doors open while unloading the car this morning and noticed that the brake booster pump just kept running and running and running, plus I can hear a strange, hollow rattling sound somewhere under the car that coincides with the pump. When I say it runs "constantly," I really mean that it runs for 10 seconds (with the rattle), stops for about 5 seconds (silence), runs and rattles for ten seconds again, stops for another five, and just keeps on going for as long as I care to sit there with the door open.

    I understand that the pump runs the first time to prime the brake system so that it will be ready when I hit Power. I'm also well accustomed to the normal buzzing and clicking sounds thanks to nearly 6 years with the car. But the extended running and the rattle have me confused, even a bit concerned. I have also heard the "bark" a few times, and the rattle sounds like something different. It isn't really metallic, but a well-damped low-pitched thunking like hard plastic against a heavy piece of the frame (or something), maybe at 10 or 20Hz. Anyone run into this?
     
  2. brick

    brick Active Member

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    Now with video...hopefully this will work. You will have to turn your volume up a bit to hear the rattle behind the normal buzz.
     
  3. brick

    brick Active Member

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    OK, it's worse. I started off on a trip to see family, and noticed that the vacuum pump now runs almost constantly while driving. 5 seconds on, 5 seconds off, 5 seconds on. There must be a vacuum leak somewhere, hopefully something simple like a critter bite. We aren't going anywhere in that car. Suffice it to say that this is not my happiest Prius moment.
     
  4. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    You have a leak - time to visit the dealer.

    Tom
     
  5. alekska

    alekska Active Member

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    And it's not a pneumatic, but a hydraulic pump, as far as I know. So yes, time to go to dealer :-(

    - Alex
     
  6. brick

    brick Active Member

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    An intermittent leak, apparently. Now that I have the thing up on jack stands to look for the problem, the original symptom is gone. I wonder if this could be some kind of instrumentation & control glitch? Guess I'll keep poking around for a while.
     
  7. brick

    brick Active Member

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    No, I'm pretty sure this is a pneumatic pump. IIRC, the same vacuum pump feeds the brake booster and operates the evaporative emissions system checks. A hydraulic pump wouldn't be appropriate for either application. The main reason for this pump is to replace engine manifold vacuum since the engine basically bounces between off and 80% throttle with little in between.
     
  8. alekska

    alekska Active Member

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    I might be wrong, again, but I think Prius brake system does not have a vacuum buster, and does not use vacuum. It has a hydraulic accumulator.

    - Alex
     
  9. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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  10. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    The Gen III brake systemis hydraulic and I would think the Gen II would be also.
     
  11. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    It is the brake accumulator pump, and it is hydraulic. Normal cars used vacuum for brake assist, since intake manifold vacuum is always available. The Prius can't do this since the engine operates intermittently. Instead, the Prius uses an electrically powered hydraulic pump to generate hydraulic pressure, which is stored in the brake accumulator. When you use the friction brakes, some of this pressure is drawn down to power the brakes. After a few applications, the accumulator pump kicks on the rebuild the pressure.

    If you have a leak in the accumulator, pump, or connecting lines, the accumulator pump will run continuously, or nearly so. If you have a leak in the brakes or connecting lines, the pump will run more or less continuously, but only when the brake pedal is depressed.

    Tom
     
  12. brick

    brick Active Member

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    OK, guess I understand now. There must be some volume of gas in the accumulator to store energy, right? (You need something compressible, and brake fluid isn't.) Then if it were a leak in the accumulator itself that gas volume would be gone (in which case the pump would dead head, which it isn't) or there would be brake fluid everywhere (which there isn't). Similarly, any external fluid leak should be evident at this point considering the severity of the initial symptom. That leaves me with some kind of internal leak, probably inside the actuator assembly. And the fix for that is guaranteed to be to replace the actuator a$$$$embly. :( So that sucks.

    On the other hand, the car isn't doing anything abnormal right now. The issue I showed in the video is gone. I also went on a a test drive around town, and the frequency with which the pump runs appears to be roughly normal.

    I'm simultaneously optimistic and troubled. I expected to go farther than 5.5 years and 88k before having to worry about something like this. Yet it could have been some flukey one-off thing like a partially closed valve that subsequently re-seated itself.
     
  13. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    Yes a small particle stuck under a valve could easily explain this. I would guess all you can do is keep a close ear on it.
     
  14. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Correct. A sticky check valve can easily cause this sort of trouble, then suddenly go away when it unsticks.

    As for having to have some volume of trapped gas, that is a common system in accumulators, although it is also possible to use elastic bladders or spring loaded pistons. I haven't looked at which system is used in the Prius.

    Tom
     
  15. brick

    brick Active Member

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    I wound up doing all the driving that I had planned for the day...loads of highway miles...without a hint of trouble. Either I lucked out or the car is screwing with me before delivering the final blow. I'll keep you posted if anything else happens. Thanks for the help troubleshooting so far. At least now I have a clue how the system works.
     
  16. viking31

    viking31 Member

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    Did you ever get a fix for this? My 2006 (just turned 300K) booster is running more than normal too. About every 30 to 60 seconds while driving without any braking. If so, how much was the part and/or did you replace it yourself?
     
  17. bhilgefort

    bhilgefort Junior Member

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    This is the exact problem I currently have and NO ONE has responded. I'm hoping this is a vacuum hose problem and not a WHOLE BRAKE BOOSTER PROBLEM. This whole thread should be deleted. This is wasting time for those who need it.
     
  18. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    The Prius does not have a vacuum powered braking system. This is because the engine may not be running when the brakes are required. The system uses an electrically driven hydraulic pressure pump storing oil under pressure in an accumulator.

    John
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    best to look for a mechanic who can install a salvage unit.
     
  20. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    If this was a criteria for keeping or deleting threads, 75% of threads here would be deleted. LOL.