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What would you do with it if you could get it...

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by daronspicher, May 21, 2006.

  1. daronspicher

    daronspicher Active Member

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    Maybe this evening will bring out some real good replies on this... because so far, in spite of asking very plainly twice, all I'm getting are lists of things that people would change.

    In fact, primarily so far, all that is here is lists of things to change, not even what to change them too... I was asking for a lot more than that.

    Here is what we need here....

    What is wrong:
    What you'd change it to in order to fix it:
    What impact that would have, and on whom:


    There is way too much crap on here about how much George sucks so I am hoping all the people with all that crap can come to the table with the issues, the fixes for those issues and also the impact those fixes will have and who will be impacted by the fix.

    I think there are people here with this kind of info.... There must be in order for there to be such strong BS directed at the present system and leadership.
     
  2. Mirza

    Mirza New Member

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    HOW I would go about changing things for the better if, at the snap of my finger, I could become the President... and PLEASE give constructive criticism... I am here to learn and grow. I prefer feedback, whether negative or positive, nonetheless.

    PROBLEMS WE FACE
    -negative world opinion
    -ballooning federal debt... and indebtedness to other countries... namely investors in China and such
    -rise of radical religiosity at home and the mideast
    -lack of personal responsibility in authorities; arrogance in light of criticism
    -faultering relations with other countries
    -the rise of economic powers such as India and China
    -falling educational standards relative to other countries, combined with the previous fact and how trends take forever to change... along with the outsourcing of technical jobs... READ: Ultra important for keeping up technologically with other countries, amongst other such factors
    -ever-growing dependence on oil
    -potential threat of human-enhanced global warming


    WAR ON TERROR
    -launch an independent program to oversee that all anti-terror operations are legal... and stay that way. IE make sure that the data being collected will never be used for anything beyond the intended purpose.
    -incorporate Muslims into the fold; don't single them out. Think about it this way... a moderate Muslim here's something suspicious in his mosque. This person is much more likely to report and cooperate with officials if he's treated like a human being. Listening to Faux News and hearing anti-Arab and anti-Islamic sentiment will potentially mean less cooperation. "Why the heck should I help someone who hates me?"
    -I was watching Faux News the other day when they were discussing the phone database program. One of the highly enlightened idiots said let's just profile young arabs. (One of them responded that he thought the next terrorist would be a sympathetic blue eyed blonde)
    -IE get TSA officials to treat them with better respect while screening. Get the FBI to become involved with the Islamic community as the UK did.
    -stop this nonsense about good vs evil and endless self justification and rightousness (IE keep religion out of it!!!)
    -be honest with american citizens and the world about intentions... If one wanted to topple the govt of Iraq, then be honest about it and don't make a lie about WMD's
    -investigate why some muslims choose to be terrorists, without resorting to the idiotic good vs evil argument.
    -bring more justice into the system (which has been happening to my knowledge)
    -other than that, I would guess that they are doing their jobs corrcetly from what I know

    INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND FOREIGN POLICY
    -enough is enough... unless there is significant and a warranted threat... no more Messianic democracy
    spreading... the more it happens, the more people hate us... especially in today's interconnected world.
    -I am a fan of making ourselves a role model democracy first before interfering with the problems of other countries. Let's fix our problems first!

    DOMESTIC POLICY
    -review any legislation and/or governmental programs that violate the clause of "separation of church and state" and remove or modify them
    -One of my Republican friends said that our military budget is at least ten times that of the next country's military expenditure... I say reduce that to maybe to 6-9 times that of the next country and utilize the that money to help aid our national problems
    -enact legislation to give power to our teachers; create a program involving the nation's teachers to overhaul our archaic educational system and modify it to carry our younger generations well into the future
    -enact stricter legislation against corruption
    -enact stricter environmental legislation
    -distribute money to the NAS and NASA to probe the global warming effect
     
  3. eyeguy13

    eyeguy13 Member

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    OK, I posted some of these yesterday, but I'll put them in the correct format:

    What is wrong: Health Care in the US
    What you'd change it to in order to fix it: Mandatory health insurance for ALL Americans. Basic coverage at a minimum. Similar to the the health insurance offered to Government workers.
    What impact that would have, and on whom: It would immediately insure all Americans for routine care and catastrophic coverage. This would lower costs for all of us since we, the ones with health insurance, pay for those without.


    What is wrong: Too many Department of Defense Contractors in the military
    What you'd change it to in order to fix it: Get rid of them. Give the jobs back to the military. George Patton, Eisenhower, etc…would be pissed to see our military contracted out to civilians. Can you imagine in WW2, if civilian contractors where feeding the troops, running fuel convoys, etc…What happens when the contractors are captured? Are they POW’s? It’s a mess.
    What impact that would have, and on whom: Restore faith to the American servicemen that we can do the job better than the contractor. Why should a US contractor, providing guard duty in Iraq, receive hundreds of dollars a day providing the same job that an enlisted does for a fraction of that? Doesn’t make sense. Plus it would free up millions, if not billions, of dollars which could go to us, the active duty force.

    What is wrong: Energy Policy
    What you'd change it to in order to fix it: Immediately raise the CAFÉ standards to 30 MPG in 2007. Not 2015 or some crazy time frame. Now. We have the capacity to do it quickly. Make conservation a real issue and incentive and talk about it from the top down. That will save millions in oil imports a day. Insist on hybrid technology now. Why shouldn’t all cars shut down when stopped? Eliminate big trucks and SUV’s from the roads. You don’t need them except if you have a business. You really don’t. We know you can stuff lots of stuff, if not more, into a Prius. And...incentives for solar panel use, changing over to compact flourescent lighting, geo-thermic heat pumps, etc..
    What impact that would have, and on whom: Reducing America’s dependency on oil. Improving National Security. The EPA says this on their website. Reducing our carbon footprint will bring about cleaner skies for all. Plus, using less gas would give Americans more money in their pockets, which can be used to buy things on the economy which will help us all (trickle down economics???)

    What is wrong: Minimum Wage
    What you'd change it to in order to fix it: Raise it. Now. FDR started this and it was meant to give Americans a minimum wage in which they can live a decent life. The Minimum Wage is too low. We all know it. How many of us work for minimum wage? Not many. We couldn’t survive on it.
    What impact that would have, and on whom: It would provide more money to the lower class/working class so they can afford to live a decent life. It would reduce their dependency on State and Federal social programs which would free up money for State’s to spend on other projects, like roads, school, etc… Plus, it would allow the lower class/working class the opportunity for the American dream like many of us. Heck, they may even have enough money to buy a Prius!

    There are more, if you want them. Again, I'm not a politician so I can't give you exact numbers, like what would I raise the minimum wage to. I don't know. I do know it has to be higher. Let others decide that. These are all very simply things we can do now to improve our country. I know many on the right will disagree with these, and I can't figure out why. These things will build a stronger America, which in the end, is what we all want.

    Oh, forgot to add the :)
     
  4. dsunman

    dsunman New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ May 22 2006, 05:47 PM) [snapback]259398[/snapback]</div>

    nice ideas, indeed.
    can't wait seeing all implemented or at least reevaluated.

    :)
     
  5. ralphbongo

    ralphbongo New Member

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    If The people we send to Washington don,t get off their a## and quit fighting each-other. The peoples work will not get done. I don,t care if you like Bush or Clinton for that matter , but remember they can only get done what congress gives them. And all congress has done in the last few years is fight. One party says it.s the others fault that nothing is done. Well cow poop. We all need to get together and fix whats wrong. If the folks in washington can't get together and work this out we need to fire them. I for one am sick of all the B.S. in both parties. Ok I am done venting. but think about it. Were the greatest country in the world. Now lets get our heads out of our butts and fix the mess.
     
  6. daronspicher

    daronspicher Active Member

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    My reply thoughts are just below your impact statements:

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ May 22 2006, 05:17 PM) [snapback]259408[/snapback]</div>
    Thanks for putting it out there. I'm not sure you've nailed down anything here that warrants hatred of the president or the venom toward him that we see on this board. Your ideas are great ideas, I'm not sure they save the country from some peril that Dubya is imposing on the nation.

    I'm hoping to point out with the thread that there are many people very hateful to our president on this forum. I guess that's one of the beauties of America.. you can rag on him here and no one will show up at your door to haul you off. So, unless you have fool proof things to fix, ways to fix them that actually do blow away the current plan, and some thought toward the people who get impacted for every change you think the country needs, your hatred is just hatred and not righteous anger at things being done wrong.

    We could probably use someone to do a good job on the Tax and Iraq situations much in the way that eye guy covered these topics...
     
  7. huskers

    huskers Senior Member

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    Cheap housing in Northwest Missouri also...hot summers,cold winters, few services...it is like living in the middle of nowhere is suppose to be like!!! :rolleyes:
     
  8. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ May 22 2006, 02:45 PM) [snapback]259394[/snapback]</div>
    Might have something to do with my comment above... on HOW those of us who sicken you were asked to reply.
     
  9. eyeguy13

    eyeguy13 Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ May 22 2006, 08:25 PM) [snapback]259482[/snapback]</div>
    Thanks again for your post.

    For every possible solution to a problem, someone will come back at it with an answer to shoot it down. I realize this. And you've done it quite well once again. :) But you have to admit that these are all problems that are facing this nation, along with others.

    We have the option to stay the course and continue on this path or make a change and fix these things.

    I'll hang it out there again and say we can't stay the course with these issues. These are the REAL issues (not gay marriage, abortion, etc...). These are not wedge issues. These are the issues America HAS to talk about and solve. It matters to all of us in the long run. We have to take a risk sometime. Maybe insuring all Americans for health care won't break the bank. Let's see how it goes with Massachusetts and their insuring all citizens in their state. Maybe raising the minimum wage will not create un-employment. Again, for every option, someone will always have a counter arguement. And it could be flat wrong.

    Staying the course will get us nowhere. Fighting amongst Democratic and Republican Congressmen will get us nowwhere. Division along Blue State and Red State will get us nowhere.

    We truly need a President who can Unite Us and not Divide Us anymore. President Bush's time is over. He couldn't do it. He had the chance, post 9/11, but blew it. The next president, Democrat or Republican, HAS to do it. We are at a crossroads, someone in an article I read called it a hinge, in history. Now is the time for change.

    Good debate for a change. Thanks. :)
     
  10. Mirza

    Mirza New Member

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    Here's my biggest problem with Bush (linked article)... it's his set of beliefs that has led to his actions. No bashing, just truth. Personally I don't question one bit that he believes he's doing what's best for the country, but I disagree in that I think what he's doing is not the best course of action for the nation.

    I would venture to say this (linked article describing Bush's convictions) is perhaps the 'source of venom...' or maybe just one of them.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060522/pl_nm/...ion_albright_dc

    "President Bush's certitude about what he believes in, and the division between good and evil, is, I think, different," said Albright, who has just published a book on religion and world affairs. "The absolute truth is what makes Bush so worrying to some of us."


    But Albright says Bush's religious absolutism has made U.S. foreign policy "more rigid and more difficult for other countries to accept."


    --------------
    Thanks dsunman! Maybe I will try to write to my senators... but other than that I fear I have no power to be able to voice my opinions other than through the internet (PC).
     
  11. Sufferin' Prius Envy

    Sufferin' Prius Envy Platinum Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(grasshopper @ May 22 2006, 12:44 PM) [snapback]259336[/snapback]</div>
    Of course, (per the fine print) you have to purchse the house next door listed for $159,000. <_<

    Still, that's not bad for two houses and 4.6 acres of Buffalo Grass. :)

    The bad part? You have to live in a state that has been proven to be flatter than a pancake. :eek:
    http://www.improb.com/airchives/paperair/v...9i3/kansas.html

    On the other hand, I wouldn't mind keeping one house as rental and using the other as home base for when I feel like chasing tornados. :blink:

    Rest assured, I wouldn't subject my Prius to that kind of treatment. ;) . . . chasing tornados, or living in Kansas. :p :lol: (j/k)
     
  12. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dsunman @ May 22 2006, 04:33 AM) [snapback]259152[/snapback]</div>
    OMG! Keep dreaming. If that happened three quarters of all the problems in Washington would go away and the politicians would actually have to address real problems like healthcare, education, economy (which I think is good at the moment) and something might actually get done. Then what would we talk about on FHOP? So I don't see either side wanting this unless the actual solution benefitted their side in one way or the other. ;)

    Wildkow

    p.s. BTW eyeguy13 "Tax Revenues" are up that's what happens when you cut taxes. :blink: :wacko:

    http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/fe...ml?id=110008374

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4800924

    http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/wm182.cfm
     
  13. daronspicher

    daronspicher Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ May 22 2006, 09:33 PM) [snapback]259514[/snapback]</div>
    It's easy to think that just about anybody "Not Bush" could or would do these kind of changes, but we know that's not true. It's bad for the country to elect a 'not Bush' when the country needs to be electing the next person for who they are, for what their ideas happen to be and not be going for the 'not Bush' answer. Do you have any ideas of a candidate that might be along these lines? Meaning... along these lines and not extremely radical to the other side thus causing continued division and polarization.
     
  14. daronspicher

    daronspicher Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ May 22 2006, 09:57 PM) [snapback]259522[/snapback]</div>
    I guess everyone has their opinnion of everyone else. Once I see a statement or article is from Albright, I pretty much slide it off the desk to the trash. She's at best a 3/10 on having a clue and she only gets a 3 because she really is a fairly smart individual. Smart only gets you so far, then you have to make something of it. I don't think she has / does.

    The reality is, there is such thing as Truth. There is not truth for you and truth for me and on the same topic, we can have differing stands on the same topic. I say it's an apple tree, you say it's a pine tree, then one day when it produces pine cones and no apples, the truth is we have a pine tree. We were not both right and we did not both have truth.

    Bush firmly believes the truth that God is out there, and that God has a hand on his life and can guide his actions. Many other people think the truth is that there is no God in the world. There is not truth for both parties on this matter. We just haven't seen if we get pinecones or apples yet. One day, Bush believes you and me and everyone will see that there is God in the world. Many believe one day we will just all be gone and there is no God, so we never see him. Either Bush is wrong on this or the other people are wrong, but there is only one truth to the topic. Many opinnions, only one truth. Maybe the truth is neither of these two answers. It is not both of these answers.
     
  15. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ May 22 2006, 10:33 PM) [snapback]259514[/snapback]</div>
    I can't read all the muck being slung in this thread, some of the responses were down right revolting such that I was able to taste my own bile for a moment...

    ...anyway, I wanted to make a point here:

    A 'uniting' President is an "appeaser" who is going to have to make the left happy even more, that's the problem. The liberal influnce has grown such that it has changed the "factorization", or "shifting" if you will. We are sliding down the sewer of liberalism FAST.
     
  16. eyeguy13

    eyeguy13 Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 23 2006, 09:06 AM) [snapback]259673[/snapback]</div>
    Squid....are you blind and deaf?? Really. Are you not living in the same world I'm living in? "Sliding down the sewer of liberalism FAST"? There is NO liberal influence. Where is it? You tell me. (and don't bring up the small pockets of laws like gay marriage in Mass, Vermont, etc...there is NO influence from this at all in the country, and you know it)

    Since 2000, this country has shifted to the right. You can't deny that. Republicans have everything. The House, the Senate, the White House, the Courts. Everything! This country is becoming a Theocracy and you honestly can sit there and type out this..."Sliding down the sewer of liberalism FAST". WOW!

    A "Uniting" President IS one who will listen to both sides and come to middle ground. Every issue has middle ground. It's called compromise. You can't have politics without it (well, you can, it's called a dictatorship).

    MS, sometimes your posts are good and sometimes I can even agree with what you say. This time I cannot.
     
  17. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ May 23 2006, 01:57 PM) [snapback]259790[/snapback]</div>
    No way...

    Had W ran for President sometime prior to Clinton, he would have won by a far larger margin. It wasn't until the Clintonian era opened the "floodgates" of liberalism which ultimately resulted in this division, not blaming Clinton per se, rather it coincided that period of time where technology and communications were taken to a whole new level. You could even argue we've been sliding to the left as far back from the beginning of the 20th century. Friggin' Kennedy, probably the most poplular President after FDR was an anti-Communist who wore Caltholicism on his sleeve to a far higher degree than Bush, yet his name is usually associated with some sort of praise... W should have won by a far greater margin, that he didn't is downright chilling and indicative of just how many TV land zombies there are out there *shudder*.
     
  18. Cameron

    Cameron New Member

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    ...new avatar...same old squid.

    Clinton is not a liberal, he's a moderate. The political pendulum has swung so far to the right that moderates appear as liberals and Regan is now the classic moderate Republican. Scary but true.
     
  19. eyeguy13

    eyeguy13 Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 23 2006, 01:38 PM) [snapback]259814[/snapback]</div>
    Squid, you're right....Liberalism was growing in the 1960's. The 'silent minority', the conservatives, were hanging out and building strength. It took time, but they finally gained control in 1994 after the Contract with America and Newt Gingrich. What we saw in 1994 was blowback for the liberal 60's. Conservativism has been gaining strength ever since 1994.

    Blue and Red States wasn't even in our lexicon until Bush won in 2000. It's 'TV land zombies' that got him elected in 2000 and 2004. There wasn't this bad of a division between parties until 2000. I said this bad. There have always been infighting between parties, just not this bad, in my opinion.

    And Clinton is a Moderate Democrat. There is no disputing that.

    Squid...you don't have to say if you don't want to...but how old are you????
     
  20. Mirza

    Mirza New Member

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    Daron,

    I enjoyed reading your response.

    ----
    MS

    So where is the muck in saying Bush is a fundamentalist in terms of religion? From what I recall of reading EVERY post in the thread... there is no muck as in simply putting slander... unless I am missing something all the responders to this thread offered concrete opinions on where things stand and where we think they should go.

    I am really confused by the position you've chosen to take... I mean look at the posts... a lot of them call for working together on issues (those we can work together on, anyways)... to stop slandering... where the heck are you getting revolting from? Or are you so biased that any liberal viewpoint no matter how moderate or even conservative it gets you've automatically led yourself to revolt????

    I am rereading my reply and I don't find any Bush bashing per se... I really think he's doing what he believes is best... how the heck is that bashing?

    Look at at this way... I made a conscious effort to try and explain some liberal views (as have others)... without ANY PERSONAL BASHING WHATSOEVER... NOT ON BUSH, NOT ON CONSERVATIVES and all you can do is spout off some labeling nonsense?!

    Do have any idea how hard it is to take you seriously?


    Keep in mind that the thread started out with liberal bashing... "liberal bs" "so sickeningly liberal"... and I don't recall any liberals bashing conservative viewpionts in the thread... all they did was explain what THEIR takes were!

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 23 2006, 10:06 AM) [snapback]259673[/snapback]</div>