Featured Perfect is often the enemy of good in the plug-in world

i don't think criticism from within is the problem. if there is a problem, and i'm not sure there is, it's gas prices.
it doesn't matter what we here at priuschat are saying, it only matters what the mfg.'s and dealers say to the ice buying public. and of course, if the ice buying public gives two hoots either way.

for people who have no environmental concerns, no geopolitical concerns, and no gas spending concerns, there's no reason to buy a hybrid, no less a plug in.

 

Most of my criticism (I'm guilty by the way) is not with the cars so much as the corporate strategy. When corporate strategies depend on manipulating government organizations, then the cars of the future will be designed to accommodate political goals instead of sustainability goals. Read the following of how BMW made some really crappy i3 decisions. These PHEV maneuvers absolutely craps up the PHEV perception...possibly correctly. Toyota meanwhile gives shortchanges PHEVs to armtwist FCVs.

BMW i3 REx Lawsuit: How'd This Happen & Who's at Fault - Inside EVs

 

one should never read the comments about one's internet posting. that's a hard and fast rule.

personally, i don't think anyone's watching except other ev drivers/advocates.

 

I agree with the characterization of dealer behavior. They don't sell hybrids or plug-ins unless the customer says 'Good bye' and walks to the door. Even then, the sales staff remains anti-hybrid biased and dreadfully ignorant reflecting the management attitudes. For example, the salesman who rode shotgun on my Level 3 'test drive' was shocked to see 99.1 MPG.

Perhaps when some of us retire, we should consider a new career as a salesman trainee at a local dealership so there will be at least one person on staff who 'has a clue.'

Bob Wilson

 

The complaint from me isn't the 22 miles of EV; I think that is probably the best range for balancing other car buyer priorities with current batteries. But the Prime has 22 miles with the compromises of a PHEV that has longer range.

Actually, not having a real hybrid has made it easier for GM to sell the Volt. They didn't have years of advertising explaining hybrids don't have a plug to fight against.

 

I am confused about the reference to Jay...
I don't like where David says the "enemy" is regular cars.
Plug-ins gotta be more like Prius with no excuses re: space, practicality, etc.

 

Considering other PHEVs, 22 miles of EV range will be no compromise for >50% of commuters. The largest factor determining how successful Prime will be is the yet unknown price. If Prime costs as little as a level 2 trim Liftback after incentives, it will take the #1 PHEV sales spot.

Knowledgeable dealers will be important as well.

 

I agree there is a certain market for plug-ins as currently configured. But a lot of folks are going to look beyond the work commute to the non-commute uses of a vehcile.

 

Realistically, just about everyone here has the wrong perspective. They look at what they think is the big-picture by identifying the gen-0 thru gen-4 Prius models, Prius PHV, and Prius Prime. Then they compare to what other automakers offer. That overlooks a vital aspect of the market.

Step back even further. What do you see?

Most people have no experience at that scale. You need to have the type of career that involves projects which take a decade or more to really get established for you to understand all that's involved. For me as a senior software developer, I have to deal with many cycles of upgrades before finally reaching the intended audience.

There simply is no way to go any faster with such an incredibly diverse and change-resistant set of users. In other words, the market is really at the "just getting started stage".

Heavy reliance on tax-credits and the continued emphasis toward HOV privileges should make that obvious. Unfortunately, there's the "criticism from within" that's preventing the bigger big-picture from actually being seen. It's the belief of "more is better" that muddles thinking.

Consider how long it took for most consumers to finally abandon desktop computers. The next step to portable devices seems so obvious. Yet, there was a major effort to remain status quo for a very long time. Think about just one aspect, hard-drives: spinning verses solid-state. Mainstream acceptance really isn't determined by just having enough capacity. In other words, more is not necessarily being better.

Toyota has worked really hard over the past decade and a half to deliver a system that addresses the wide array of consumer preferences, attempting to strike the right balance rather than emphasizing any specific trait. Remember, mainstream buyers have little in common with those of us here.

 

What precisely does the Prius Prime offer these mainstream buyers?

 

Because it has Toyota badge others don't.

 

Well, it doesn't have a full frame, so the frame rails can't rust out like a Tacoma.

 

John, we know the current sales volume of the Prius Gen 4 lift back, that it will share a very high percentage of parts/design with the Prime, and can use it as a benchmark in at least a few important ways. We can assume buyers place a certain value on the Liftback being a Toyota and accepted or preferred certain design and functional elements that will carry over to the Prime.

So outside of pricing considerations and things we already know about the lift back, what is the holy grail that will interest mainstream buyers for the Prime beyond this.

 

Since Toyota claims, "... no one's knocking on our door" to build plug-in's - & that plugin's are only for those who have, "...4 hours to waste..." there apparently is no holy grail.
To the OP - if you think it's pathetic that other plugin manufacturers' fans are taking pot shots at each other - then you must REALLY have an issue with Toyota - when it cuts its own product down. At least GM isn't taking cheap shots at the bolt or the volt - insinuating that they are lame.
.

 

GM simply isn't interested in selling Volt.

 

Hummm, note to self. In your letter to Toyota, include a knock-knock joke.

GM corporate doesn't do it ... the dealer staff do when you ask about getting a Volt or Bolt. 'You know a Cruze is just as good and less than half the cost. Or better still, this fine pickup truck big enough to carry a Volt in the bed for the same price.'

Bob Wilson

 

i think john is saying that these things take time, and prime is only another rung on the ladder to success. 10 or 20 years from now, it will be a totally different story.