Prime destined to be doa?

true, i suppose i shouldn't get my hopes up.

 

If Russians can figure out how to repeatedly encrypt the files on the servers at my work, then hopefully someone will hack the Tesla to unleash some of the fun features for free. No way am I paying a subscription for anything relating to vehicles or transportation. I limit my subscriptions to internet access, Netflix, taxes, $8/mo gym membership, sewer, garbage, electricity and natural gas.

 

That maybe, and those BEVs could even be more attractive to the public, but as of right now, GM has the same stance on DC fast charging as Toyota does on hydrogen infrastructure, that it is other business segment's concern to build. So I foresee Tesla having an edge in the market with the Supercharger network. Nissan bringing out a BEV with an Al-air battery range extender, and supporting the first network of anode replacing stations, is the only possible competition Tesla will have on the long trip fast refueling front. The others will be at the mercy of a DC fast charging network growing without national level planning, or buying in to the Supercharger system. I can't count GM out of Al-air prospect, but the rest have shown less interest in plug ins in general.

Would you steal gasoline for your car?
Why is it objectionable to pay for the electricity for a plug in?

Tesla hasn't said anything specific about the Supercharger access plans that they are considering for the Model 3, but the only real hurdle to a flat per kWh fee is utility billing regulations; in some states, the electric companies might be the only ones that charge for electricity directly.

 

I was referring to features such as autopilot, auto braking, auto park, etc, and not about free access to the charging network. Generating electricity has a cost, which is why it shouldn't be free. Activating sensors that a car already is equipped with has no additional cost, and hacking the car would not burden anyone else.

 

But you aren't paying for the sensors that were included (one or two of them perhaps, but not all).
Unless pay for the Autopilot sensors, you are basically suggesting theft.

 

i'm not sure how much supercharging will swing sales, a lot of people are interested in 200 miles just to get them out and back without recharging. especially in winter.

 

Elon says that all cars will be equipped with the sensors, so I'm not suggesting stealing the sensors and installing them on the vehicle; only utilizing the existing ones.

 

True about just wanting longer range, but the Model 3 and Bolt are both priced above the average new car price, which includes bigger things like minivans. The easier they can be used instead of an ICE car will attract sales. The Supercharger network already reaches across the country, and Tesla is still expanding it. It will cost to access the network, but the car has the charger standard. The CCS or CSS that the Bolt uses might not be standard on the car, and the user is limited too whatever chargers government, utilities, or private businesses have installed.

Even if they never use the network, the Supercharger has been a sales draw for Tesla since the beginning.

The use of the term subscription implied the Supercharger network.

Just because software only exists and works within electronic memory, doesn't mean it doesn't have a cost. A programmer was paid to write it and test it. By your logic, Ford should have just hacked the HSD software and used it. They made and paid for the hardware themselves. There is no burden on Toyota in Ford downloading the code off one of their cars, tweaking it, and up loading it into one, or a few thousand, of theirs.

Home built PCs are cheaper than pre-assembled. Specially if you use a pirated copy of Windows. A Hackintosh is cheaper than the Apple store model, as long as you ignore that Apple owns their OS, and forbids it being it installed on anything but their machines.

What you propose is still theft, and Tesla will likely do more that cut you off from updates for doing it.

 

Looks like CA stops giving money away with rebates. No money in the next budget, sitting on Gov. Brown's desk. Another nail for Prius Prime before it even comes out.

Tesla and Nissan drained it dried while most others sitting on the sideline for free money.

Bet Toyota is bribing CARB to give money for their FC cars dream to continue.

 

Here in MN, we haven't ever expected state money anyway. That's way I come across as pushing harder. It was always going to be more of a challenge without incentives like that... and we have real winters to deal with too.

 

Except that unlike Ford and all other auto manufacturers, Elon has said that the Tesla is open source. You can't steal what is given to you. Besides, the nature of a computer is that it's programmable. We're free to develop our own software and run it on the hardware.

 

No, just no.

 

Fine, go ahead and write your own autonomous code and install it in a Tesla. The valuable part of that technology, assuming that the auto-pilot feature is part of Tesla's open source folder, is the thousands of hours of driving data the AI is using to make decisions with. That is not not included in the patent.

Other companies can put Superchargers on their BEV's. They can even build their own network. Tesla has said they don't even have to get an official licensing agreement to do so. But for their car's to use Tesla's Supercharger network, they will have to pay in some manner.

Saying that everyone is free to use your idea(patent) is not the same as saying you are giving your products away for free.

 

Curious as to how you buy these days (internet sales)? The dealers and sales reps in the Washington, DC area are generally atrocious. Did a first test drive of a 2016 4 Touring yesterday and the guy didn't know a thing about the car. Asked about the NiMH vs. Li-Ion battery and got a blank stare.

 

What dealers did you try? Try Jack Taylor's Alexandria Toyota and, if you want a Prius tech saavy sales person, do some up front planning to get a senior sales person. Most of here are not looking for a Prius tech expert as we know that stuff ourselves. There is some concern that Plug-ins are not well understood by sales persons, but normally for Prius it's just a car you drive forget about it.

MD is a CARB state (extended warranty 150k mile and 10-yrs) and I am still confused about how Toyota handles DC CARB status. I think DC is non-CARB but there are no dealers in DC so not sure if they go by state of purchase. If you thought you might move to MD, then I'd buy in MD for a shot at the extended warranty (which is not however guaranteed - depends how Toyota handles DC residents in their policy - normally a first registration in a non-CARB state disqualifies extended warranty in Toyota policy).

Also keep in mind DC I think you still you get sales tax exclusion for most Prii over 40 MPG EPA City, and that is the only remaining hybrid $incentive in the entire U.S.A. If you live in NoVA we tax the crap out of new cars, in lieu of local income taxes like MD.

PS- All USA Gen4 except 2 have Li batt. Nobody here knows which is really better. USA we tend to prefer Li whereas rest of world gets NiMH on the Gen4, and they tend to like NiMH proven record. In USA we have more attitude Li is best. We have no idea the real advantages/disadvantages of NiMH vs. LI for Prius because Toyota is not saying.

 

we test drove the newest volt as well as the Prius. Sellers of both are amazingly ignorant. One thing folks seem to agree on - when you go into a Tesla store - their people really seem know every nuance of their product. But those of us who really know the product before we go in . . . we're the only ones who really know whether sales people are shining us on, or not. We are the outliers. But yeah if only 10 or 12% of prospective buyers know their stuff - that's a small enough ratio of informed buyers that dealerships can kiss them off. Dealerships wouldn't want to train their peeps overly well, when there's such a high employee turnover in that industey.

Toyota's stance on quick charging is quite understandable. How schizophrenic would Toyota look - to help start building out the CHADdeMO quick charge DC Network, after they've already committed themselves to the philosophy, "Plugin's are only for people with 4hr's to kill"



You start advertising CHAdeMO can drop nearly 100 miles into the depleted end of a 200 mile pack in about 25minutes ... less time than you can wolf down your burger, malt & fries .... you'd wonder why anyone would even contemplate building out a tax payer funded - trillion-dollar hydrogen infrastructure that still requires $12 per liter fuel - reformed primarily thru a CO2 releasing proces. Wouldn't that be kind of - crazy?
Adding insult to injury;

CHAdeMO working on fast-charging standard for 200-mile EVs - Autoblog

That'd mean your plugin quickie 100 mile boost would drop to somewhere between 12 to 10 minutes, even as hydrogen costs go up. Not such a pretty hydrogen outlook, but that's the bet That Lexus/Toyota is hanging their hat on.
.

 

Well, Tesla reps only need to know two models verse the 8 or more of a traditional brand.

 

I swung by Koons in Tysons. Had a similarly miserable experience at Jim Coleman in Bethesda back when the Gen3 first came out. This time I went into it a lot more educated than that go-round (and I had leased a Lexus HS 250h in the interim, so I was familiar with the Hybrid Synergy Drive and various drive modes). The test-drive if the Gen3 was abysmal, because at the time I owned a BMW 3-series and the guy had the car in ECO mode the whole drive. I didn't realize you could change modes, and figured I'd be dead meat with the Prius's acceleration (in ECO).

DC is a CARB state; although you're right, there are no dealerships in the District. Maybe a Maryland dealer is the way to go.

Thanks so much for the feedback!

 

Would love to consider a Tesla, but unfortunately I live in a condo building with no option to add a charger at my parking space.

 

My pleasure, see also update to my prior thread.
Well, if DC is CARB state, it is not listed in any auto manufacturers CARB warranty. I have read all the warranties and FORD, GM, Toyota, nobody adds in DC in their CARB list of states. DC is a "state" for Clean Air Act purposes, so it should listed if it is a CARB "state". Rather DC is one of those states that thought about joining CARB alliance, but as far as I know did not do so in the final analysis. Let me know if you know.