Ford dealership joins union

Areas with high union representation have higher wages. Areas with low union representation have lower wages. If you prefer lower wages, prevent people from joining unions. If you prefer higher wages, join a union and encourage others to do likewise.

Examples: Auto workers make more than Walmart employees. Michigan has higher wages than Mississippi.

 

I don't understand why you think it will decrease traffic from the "real world." I think that I would be more likely to go to a unionized shop than a non-unionized shop, since I would like to show my support for labor unions.

Do you not believe in unions? Or do you just think that this will lead to higher prices for service that you wouldn't want to pay?

Of course, it's still a Ford dealership, so I don't think I'll be going there anyway. <_<

 

the union wage thing is interesting, but with a globalized economy and its ability to create an instananeous competitor or supplier on the other side of the world, an american company can no longer afford to pay union wages especially when we consider how much money the union makes for the services it provides. it is nothing more than a middleman and very very overpaid one at that.

many people think unions serve a purpose and point at walmart as a prime example of how bad things would be if there were no unions at all. that is actually as far from the truth as you can get. if walmart increased the wages they paid out by less than a dollar an hour across the board when they first went public, they would not being turning a profit now.

they would not have had a chance to become one of the most powerful and efficient companies in the world. efficiency in supplying customer demand exactly when the customer needs it is why they are successful.

lets crunch numbers. walmart makes $6000 per employee. microsoft makes $200,000 per employee. makes it pretty obvious that walmart would not even be here if it were not for unions, and cry and whine as much as you want, but the cost of life is staggering. how the money gets distributed is an all powerful thing.

walmart is successful because the american public deems it so. walmart can only survive by maintaining its huge volumes. but there are a million other places to shop. walmart has a sea of competition. so we can control their destiny. say what you want, but at least with walmart, i have a choice. same with Toyota, gm or whatever.

im not sure i can say the same for microsoft.

 

I have no problem with unions per se. Many nurses are union, and they take great care of me when I'm sick. Most firefighters are union, and they run into burning buildings (or worse!) Talk about job commitment.

Some union leaders give unions a bad name, when they start to think of their own interests over that of their members. But you can say the same about corporations and their leaders, when they start to put their intrests over their shareholders, customers, and employees.

The idea that lower wages are necessary to be competitive makes as much sense as people working in sweatshops should be thankful for their jobs.

The funny thing about Wal-Mart.. they reduce mostly lower wage jobs in communities, but that's their biggest shopper. If their best shoppers are unemployed, who will they sell to then?

 

we can go around and around over whats better for the economy. either raise walmarts prices and the employee salaries, or keep the salaries low and allow the employees to use publicly funded health care.

i guess its a matter of what you prefer. i prefer the method that gives me the greatest amount of choice. one thing i do know, it doesnt matter how much you pay walmart employees, public assistance will still be around. although i personally dont shop at walmart, (been there a few times, have yet to buy anything from them but i can honestly say im not a shopper. just not that much into personal stuff i guess or more likely, just cant think of anything i wanna go out and buy right now)

but in the grand scheme of things, its very likely that not having walmart would hurt a lot of people too. even if every walmart employee spent their entire paycheck at the store they worked at, they still couldnt support the store without a lot of help.

so is walmart good for us? well, all i have to say it either they are or they are pulling a fast one on a huge majority of the country. besides... cry all you want about walmart, but does target pay that much better? or shopko or any other retail establishment for that matter?

 

We've already been down this road. Search the forums for 'Target'. Target really is a much better corporate citizen than Wal-Mart. Wait, make that a much MUCH better corporate citizen!

Yes, Wal-Mart is pulling a fast on a 'huge majority' of the country. Although I think 'majority' is an absolute.

 

I can tell you this much, you are absolutely safer on an airliner piloted by pilots with union job protection. That also goes for your family members.

In my experience, those who 'don't believe in unions' haven't personally witnessed the benefits of a unified workforce.

I'll bet you $1,000,000 you're in managment, JackDodge!

 

Personally I'd rather wal-mart paid it's employees enough to afford their own health care, so my tax dollars don't end up paying for it. Since I don't shop at Wal-Mart, and don't intend to, I don't see why my tax dollars are being used to pay the health care that their employees need and Wal-Mart won't pay for.

 

unfortunately we live in an area where majority is supposed to rule... the assumption goes that if enough people feel like johnnycat then walmart will go out of business, its displaced employees can go out and get another job.

 

There's a catch:

When the majority have no more CHOICE due to anti-competitive practices employed by those such as Wal-Mart, they CAN'T RULE! Unfortunately, these days, Bush's foxes are guarding all of the hen houses...

 

By the way, JackDodge, I found your subject line for this thread very offensive. I believe you're implying that union employees in general are lazy and take too many breaks. Did I misunderstand you there?

 

Perhaps if JackDodge ever needs an ambulance or the police for an emergency, he could pithily add "come on over if you're not on a break, you lazy union bastards". I'm sure they'd appreciate his sense of humour.

 

Being an independent contractor, unions were once a possibility.

I have worked with many union shops, most of which were quite friendly and willing to help out as they could. There is only one place that I worked at where I was not wanted by the union but required by the state in order to install smog monitoring devices. From the outside, it would seem that unions can be a good thing, as long as the union leadership accurately represents its members and the dues are reasonable.

 

Unions are fine. The problem is if they kill their own host companies by not allowing wages to market. Unfortunaty, this is tending to happen a bit more as globalization pushes wage pressure downwards. Unions can push for tariffs to protect wages in the short term, but in the long term the markets end up winning.

If your job can be unionized, you will do better most likely as part of a union until your job is moved to someone who is not unionized and will work for less. It is good while it lasts.

 

My wife's a school teacher and thus forced to be part of the union. Unfortunately the union not only in collective bargaining for job related things (salary, benefits, etc..) but also thinks it needs to support ideologies. Why are her union dues going to support political causes in which she disagrees with? That sucks about unions.

My other observation (I spend way too much time on the road).... I can't remember ever seeing a beautiful new expensive vehicle with a "Local 499 Plumbers Union", or some union bumper sticker. I see so much, these crapped out junker vehicles with these pro-union bumper stickers. When I see harold and sons plumbing swing by in a 1 year old spanked out van with a beautiful paint job for their company, it never has a union bumper sticker. So often it's a 10 year old ford ranger limping down the road with the pro-union stickers. My thought goes to... The other half of your new truck was given to union leadership to waste on a political cause you probably don't agree with.

I was initially wrong in thinking that the union dues get dumped into some huge fund so that when the union strikes, everyone still keeps getting paid and so they need a large fund to be able to do this. I find out that is not the case. The union decides to strike or the company needs to lock the union out, the workers don't get paid. That's gotta be nice.. especially for someone who doesn't support the strike.

The UAW will kill Ford and GM. I'm truely amazed that these companies have been able to sustain so long under the burden. My understanding is that Toyota doesn't have this monkey on their back, so it's no surprise they are about to become the largest auto maker in the world and the US companies are about to take a back seat.

I'm sure they are good for something, I'm just glad I'm not part of one. I'd much rather take my paycheck home rather than leave a few hundred bucks at the gate on the way out.

 

"The UAW will kill Ford and GM. I'm truely amazed that these companies have been able to sustain so long under the burden. My understanding is that Toyota doesn't have this monkey on their back, so it's no surprise they are about to become the largest auto maker in the world and the US companies are about to take a back seat"

Some of the richest countries in the world in scandinavia have very high rates of unionization. They also have a much smaller gap between the rich and poor, greater equality for women, much better education and free universal health care. Part of the reason Toyota opens plants in Canada is they don't have to pay for worker's medical costs - the government provides this. Seems to me that all corporations in the US should be lobbying like mad for universal health care.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Jun 2 2006, 11:29 AM) [snapback]264648[/snapback]</div>

I believe population size and density has a lot to do with their success. Sweden in is the largest of the Scandanavian countries and has a population of only 10 million. It's largest city, Stockhom, has a population of only 775,000. Finland and Norway of populations around 5 million. New York City has a population of 7 million.

Smaller populations and lower population densities result in more opportunities and less ability for slums, ghettos, and underclasses to form.

I will acknowlede that their socialist government policies may have a significant hand in their success, but I'm willing to bet that it would begin to fall apart if they had large populations and population densities. Like France, for instance.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zacher @ Feb 26 2006, 08:58 PM) [snapback]217073[/snapback]</div>

I formerly worked for a unionized shop, on both sides of the fence. My observations:
1) The union protected lazy employees, and made it almost impossible to get rid of them.
2) The union even protects employees caught in thievery, dishonesty, or even sexual harassment, because they are DEATHLY afraid of setting ANY precedent that might be used against another employee in the future.
3) The union made it where there was NO incentive for someone to work harder, or try to improve themselves, as everyone got paid equally.
I'm sorry, but these are NOT my opinions, but cold facts, after working there 16 years. I was actually back there visiting last week, and they told me about a greivance going on at that moment:
One of my former technicians (whose nice person was saved a couple times before by the union) is the lead fiber optic splicer. The one local town needed us to relocate the fibers, as they are turning the area into a park, and want the poles removed. The tech REFUSED to come in at 2 AM to do the work, when everyone else was doing it to avoid as much disruption of the customer's service while the fibers were being relocated! :angry: That's one of the things that has angered me the most about that union: the fact that, although they work in a customer SERVICE business, their needs/schedule came first. "100 customers out of service? Hey, its 5 o'clock! I'm going home!" Holidays, weekends? Just try to get them to answer their home phones. They all got caller ID so they could avoid being called out. :angry:
Sorry, but I lost all respect for unions a long time ago.