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Dash lights, but no code

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Richiemoe, Sep 26, 2016.

  1. Richiemoe

    Richiemoe Junior Member

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    My wife has a 2006 Toyota Prius. Yesterday, she called me saying that all of her dash lights were on, but everything still worked fine; including the electric. She drove home no problem and i looked at it tonight. Luckily it wasn't all of the dash lights again, as last time i had to replace one of the hybrid cells... When i turned on the car, there was a Red Triangle and the check engine light was on, in the dash. There was also a red car symbol with a red exclamation point on the digital screen, in the top left corner. So i started googling for answers. The top two issues were the inverter coolant pump or the 12v battery. I checked the coolant after pushing the power button twice without my foot on the brake and the coolant was rippling. Next, i checked the 12v with the car off and it read 12.84v, but i didn't disconnect the battery to check it. Then i turn on the car and there is now also a yellow circle with an exclamation point in the middle and two half partial circles outside of the circle. So "(O)" with "!" in the middle. The oil was only half a quart low, which is normal.

    Before I pull out of the driveway, i look at the hybrid battery charge and it looks low, and is colored purple. As i drive to Autozone for them to scan it, it quickly charges up and is almost full blue bars. They scan it and it doesn't throw any codes. While i am there, i figure, might as well check the 12v battery. They unhook the terminals and scan it. It shows the battery is good, but a little low on a charge. So i think it could be the alternator, if it has one. We put the terminals back on, i start up the car and all of the error lights are gone! So i drive around a little since the hybrid battery looked purple/low again. I drive around a few blocks to charge it up, then pull into a gas station and still for about 5 minutes while i text my wife and still google issues. I pull out and drive, then the lights comes back on, the hybrid charge blinked and was back down to purple, from blue, then charged back up after a few blocks. But i notice i'm having trouble accelerating now and when i give it gas, it seems to be revving higher than usual. i get home, park and pull up the maintenance screen and it shows everything is fine, but the 12v battery is at 11.4v with the car off. So i googled some more stuff and for fun and giggles, drive up to Napa and they scan the 12v battery as well. Their tool doesn't require the battery to be disconnected they said, and it showed the battery is great! Although, when they asked me to start the engine, their tool didn't recognize that i did start it... But the drive to and from Napa, the car accelerated normally.

    I just asked my wife before logging on here and she mentioned that the car did seem to rev higher than normal. Which if she noticed something wrong, it was a little higher than normal! haha I also noticed that the RPM's sounded higher than normal.

    So in summary, the Red Triangle with a "!" is on, a Yellow "(O)" with a "!" in the middle, the check engine light is on, and does not throw any codes on the Auto zone scanner. Besides the RPM's sounding like they are a little higher, it seems to run fine! Oh, and the fan for the hybrid battery is running full blast, but i think that is an automatic safety feature because of the dash lights...

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    sounds like your battery is bad again. perhaps the auto zone scanner isn't picking up the codes. i have not heard of the cooling fan being triggered by the dash lights, it likely is the battery overheating.
     
  3. Richiemoe

    Richiemoe Junior Member

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    The hybrid battery? That showed different codes last time and the electric motor didn't work then either... Maybe whatever charges the battery is going bad? Like at alternator?
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it's charged throughout the inverter. see if there is any movement in the inverter coolant reservoir when the car is made ready.
     
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Disconnected the battery temporarily set the warning lights. And maybe AutoZone isn't capable of reading Prius codes, take it to a Toyota dealership? That last battery reading, 11.4 volts, is VERY low.
     
  6. andrewclaus

    andrewclaus Active Member

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    The car is showing symptoms of another cell failure. The battery fan running definitely points to the battery, not the charging system. You'll need to get codes read by someone with Toyota Techstream software to be sure. There are hundreds of specialized codes and sub-codes that the auto parts store can't read, or read effectively.

    Without the DTCs, we are just guessing.
     
  7. Richiemoe

    Richiemoe Junior Member

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    So potentially the pump is starting to go, which is causing it to overheat?

    I think the dealership charges $150 to scan, so i'm hoping to figure this out for less than that... I know a few people with very expensive scanners, i'll see if they can scan it for like $20.
     
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    They'll need Toyota specific software Techstream I think.
     
  9. bisco

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    it can overheat the inverter, not sure about the battery.
     
  10. Richiemoe

    Richiemoe Junior Member

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    I am totally open to that being the issue, as it wasn't that difficult to change; just time consuming. But the last time the cell went out, it was barely under the voltage threshold, and the entire electric motor stopped working. Also, i can't remember if the hybrid fans started blowing hard right away, or after i drove it around. My wife can't remember if the fan was blowing hard when she was driving it home... So maybe it is a overheating issue with the inverter?
     
  11. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    The HV Battery is air cooled. The HV Battery Fan speed is proportional to the temperature inside the HV Battery case. The hotter the battery, the faster (obviously louder) the fan turns. Only at the higher fan speeds (4-6), will you likely hear it.

    NO. You ruled out a failed inverter pump in post #1.

    You need a better understanding of your car. The Gen2 HV Battery contains 28 modules, wired in series. Each module contains six 1.2V NiMH cells, wired in series. One module=6cells*1.2V/cell= 7.2V. HV Battery= 28modules*7.2V/module= 201.6V. Each module is fully enclosed in a metal and plastic housing, and is not user serviceable, meaning the manufacture did not provide a means to open the module and replace the bad cell(s). It would take a very determined person, to replace a bad cell inside a module. Is this what you did, or did?

    The HV ECUs look at the battery in terms of module pairs (called Blocks). There are 19 blocks monitored. Block #1 is next to the HV ECUs. A .3V difference in a block will cause a P0A80 (Replace Hybrid Battery Pack). There are other codes that will cause the dash to light-up and indicate an issue with the battery.

    An expensive scanner doesn't mean squat, unless it is using software to read all of the ECUs!

    Why have you NOT purchased mini VCI w/ the hacked Techstream software from Amazon/eBay ($20-$30). Techstream is the official software to read Toyota codes. A laptop running a Windows 32bit OS (XP/7) is required. 64bit Win/Mac OS install possible. Many Internet postings on install help (32bit/64bit/Mac).

    Inverter is cooled by the bottom half of the radiator as illustrated in the picture below.
    Cooling Loop-Inverter.jpg

    1) How long (duration & miles) did your repair last?
    2) You are aware that module swapping is a band aid repair? Very temporary.
    3) Why don't you do a rebuild if you are looking for a longer lasting repair? Read & take notes. Gen II Prius Individual Battery Module Replacement | PriusChat
    4) What is your time & unnecessary stress worth to you?

    I place a premium on reliability and avoidable maintenance/repairs. A new OEM battery can be purchased for $2071 from willing Toyota dealers.

    A new HV Battery is pricey. But it will give you longevity, unless you are a glutton for punishment and enjoying doing what you did before. Don't forget, you can always transfer this new OEM HV Battery into another Gen2, or a Gen3 by swapping all the modules into a Gen3 HV Battery case.
     
    #11 exstudent, Sep 26, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
  12. Richiemoe

    Richiemoe Junior Member

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    This is the first foreign car I've ever worked on, let alone a hybrid vehicle, so i'll be the first to admit I have a LOT to learn!! I've only worked on Jeep, GM and Ford vehicles, and even then, I'm only at backyard mechanic status...

    Going back to the inverter pump, I wasn't sure if it is starting to go bad, or is there no in between? Either good or bad, not "starting to go bad", that might be throwing codes/dash lights?
    The first time the hybrid battery went out, the electric motor stopped working and a lot more dash lights came on, than what is on now. That is what is making me think there is not an issue with the hybrid cells themselves. Although, when I took apart the hybrid pack, all of the other cells tested much higher than the lowest voltage allowed. Actually the worst cell in the pack is the replacement that I bought on ebay. I forgot the exact voltage though. It is totally possible that another cell is going bad, but it is giving different codes than before. Also, the battery pack fan starts off a full blast right when I turn on the car, and it is only 60 degree out... Replacing the cells wasn't that bad after I fully understood what I was going. It only took about 45 minutes to get the pack out, which as last winter.

    And when I say expensive scanner, I think it is a Matco brand? It showed the failed hybrid battery code before when they scanned it... That is great about the software I can download to my laptop. I should be able to figure that out, as I'm actually in IT. But never know... haha

    1. I replaced the bad battery cell last January. The original error codes showed up NYE...
    2. I did not know replacing a bad cell was only a temp fix. But for as much as it saves, I'm ok opening it back up again if needed.
    3. That is more than I want to spend on this vehicle. I mean, it is in great shape and just about paid off, then all of our vehicles will be paid off. But since I don't know much about it and we put a lot of miles on it, I don't want to invest that money, then have another costly fix come up... It is already using more oil than I'd like, but still within the correct standards of use.
    4. Yes, I agree with you there, especially since it is my wife's vehicle. We do have AAA, but I still want her to be safe and not late to work because of car issues. I think I might bandaid it for now and see how long it goes. But I just need to get is scanned first. The dealership wants $130 to scan it. I thought it was $150... So it looks like if my buddy can't scan it, then i'll have the dealership....
     
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I'm clueless about reconditioning the hybrid battery, but just what I've gleaned here: there's more that just uniform voltages involved. It's kind of analogous to 12 volt batteries, that may show good voltage, but have little "cranking amp" reserve.

    With the hybrid battery, yes: the at-rest voltages of the cells should be close, but also, when the battery as a whole is charged and discharged, they cells' state-of-charge needs to go up and down uniformly.

    Accomplishing this is involved, and sometimes futile; a new battery, or a professionally refurb'd battery is sometimes the better option.
     
  14. Beachbummm

    Beachbummm Senior Member

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    you might want to order techstream from e bay and use it with an old laptop..it will cost you about $35
     
  15. Richiemoe

    Richiemoe Junior Member

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  16. bisco

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    the inverter pump either works or not. you saw rippling, so it's fine. the bigger issue is how you go about testing and repairing your battery. are you content with constantly replacing bad modules, or would you prefer to make a one time concerted effort to hopefully provide long lasting results?
     
  17. Richiemoe

    Richiemoe Junior Member

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    Ah thank you, that is what I was wondering about the pump... I talked to the dealership today and the guy said he thinks there is an issue with the hybrid battery as well. My buddy with the scanner, he has a Snap-On scanner, not Matco. So we'll see if that works tomorrow. Also, I just bought the scanner in the above ebay link. For under $18, why not?!?!

    Depending how much money it saves me, I'm definitely content replacing battery cells. I did read that it is good to also replace either the outer most cells in the pack as well. Or it was the cells on each side of the bad one, which I did not do. I only replaced the bad one. So it might stem back to how I originally fixed it. Still weird that it has gone about a year without any issues...
     
  18. andrewclaus

    andrewclaus Active Member

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    A couple of times now you've said this time the codes are different, yet apparently you haven't read any codes yet. Do you mean other signs and symptoms, such as dashboard lights and the way the car behaves? If so, please don't talk about codes you haven't read--it's misleading.

    That Mini VCI looks like it should work. Like you say, for $18 you can't go too wrong. Some here say there's a chance of serious malware with those products, so you may wish to use an old computer you will never again use on the internet. I didn't have a problem with the version I ordered. You may have to jump through a hoop or two to read and load the files, and you might see some interesting stuff, but that should come pretty easy to an IT person. Don't expect a manual--it's plug and play and I found a couple of Youtube tutorials.

    In addition to block voltage, Techstream will measure internal resistance, the other key parameter for battery health alluded to above. There's more than one way a battery can fail a test.

    There are four temp sensors in the battery. Techstream will also allow you to troubleshoot that system.

    There have been instances of exploding modules, probably from high series current across high internal resistance.
     
  19. Richiemoe

    Richiemoe Junior Member

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    Sorry about that, you are right. I definitely meant some different and less dash lights compared to the first time I had hybrid battery issues. And the one instance when auto zone scanned the car, and their device did now show any codes. My buddy is coming over tonight, so i'll update then if his scanner finds anything. Otherwise, i'll wait until my ebay scanner comes in the mail next week. I really need to get the prius running though, because the transmission went out on my wife's jeep on the way to work yesterday morning. When it rains, it pours.... haha

    I'll definitely scan the cd before installing it on my computer, good call! I'd hate for some ransomware to take over, or other malware/virus! There were some good youtube tutorial videos for sure!! This is also a way that I can run the software in "Windows7 mode", if it won't run on Windows10 64-bit... But I think the main concern is definitely not ruining the computer I install it on!

    I did not know Techstream could read all of that, nor did I know about the temp sensors.... Thank you again for all of your insight!!! I really enjoy learning all of this!!! My wallet also thanks everyone for their comments as well! ha
     
    #19 Richiemoe, Sep 28, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
  20. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    Many here seem to use Techstream on a spare laptop. This will obviously bypass any security concerns, as this spare laptop is only used for Toyota diagnosis. If you have a friend in IT, he/she may have access to obsolete laptops just gathering dusts. See if he/she can give you one. If not, plenty of Win XP laptops on craigslist of $50-$80.

    Techstream is software made for Toyota to read Lexus/Toyota/Scion/Daihatsu(JDM) models. A more recent software version will likely be required to read the newest Toyota family model. Thus the need for professional mechanics, to have a Techstream paid subscription to Toyota TIS (Technical Information Systems) for the latest software version/updates.

    Just be thankful you are not like this person who bought a code reader that is hyped and marketed just for Hybrids.
    2007 Prius - Battery not charging, no acceleration, Red triangle and other warning lights | PriusChat