Real vs. Nominal Prime Battery Capacity

I think you will be able.
PiP manual (Europe) is saying:
If the Remote Air Conditioning System is used while the charging cable is connected to the vehicle, the reduction of charge in the hybrid battery will be suppressed to allow you to use electricity from an external power source.
Charging will be conducted automatically after the Remote Air Conditioning System is stopped.
So, at least with the PiP the remote preconditioning is done directly from the grid.

 

of course, your car will start warming or cooling when the pre conditioning shuts down, and charging resumes.
a better system would allow for both.

 

Well with the Prime's 3.3 charger and the more efficient heat pump maybe that will happen. You just have to remember the pre conditioning lasts 10 minutes max. It might be better but it can't fix stupid.


Unsupervised!

 

So, do you expect this battery heating will be so effective that you can charge the battery up to a level like on a warm summer day? That would increase the range in wintertime by another 30% to 40% or even more.

In the EU announcement in PRIUS PLUG-IN HYBRID The New Benchmark in Fuel Efficiency I see:

"Moreover, during charging, a new battery warming system will warm the cells to an efficient working temperature in outside conditions as cold as -20 degrees C. This ensures that both battery power and efficiency are maintained at a sufficient level to minimise the impact of cold weather on EV driving range, with full power available from start off in even very cold conditions.
Its maximum charging power increased from 2 to 3.3 kW, the battery itself can be fully charged up to 65% more quickly; in only 2 hours using the Type II Mode III Mennekes connector, and 3 hours and 10 minutes using a standard household plug socket. The charging process is now programmable weekly on a day-by-day basis, and includes the facility to simultaneously charge and pre-cool or pre-heat the cabin."

This also suggests a usable capacity of 65% which is 5.7 kWh, which is about double the usable capacity of the first generation PiP, not more. And charging and heating can be done simultaneously.

 

Lithium chemistry sees a significant resistance increase when its temperature drops below freezing. How much out can hold hasn't been a problem, since the act of charging warms it anyway.

The new warming system is setup to keep the battery from dropping below that threshold: 32°F (0°C).

In other words, upgrade is for usage improvement, not how much out can ultimately hold.

We'll see further EV distances as a result of the battery already being warmed... but not summer like, since supplemental heat will still be needed. However, it may not be much, having both heated seats and a heated steering-wheel.

 

The PiP usable capacity is between 2.5 to 2.6 kWh. Lucky in Europe the normal household voltage is 220-240V. Here in the US with the typical 1.3 kW (110V) EVSE I'd be surprised if you could heat and charge at the same time.


Unsupervised!

 

You've got energy (kWh) and power (kW) backwards in that entire post.

 

The reward for me comes from being able to plug in at work with a 240V connection (fed by solar). Walking out to a pre-warmed car in the middle of winter (here in Minnesota) will be fantastic!

 

Yep forgot to go back in and edit. Looked right at and still hit the reply button, sigh. Probably shouldn't try and do multiple things at the same time.


Unsupervised!

 

I do not think the text you have quoted hints to the usable portion of the battery capacity, 65% refers to the increase in charging speed "up to 65% more quickly" (to full charge).
They have never disclosed the usable portion in the PiP as well.

 

Maybe your grammatical analysis is more plausible. I read it like "... the battery itself can be fully charged up to 65% ..."

As they say "This ensures that both battery power and efficiency are maintained at a sufficient level to minimise the impact of cold weather on EV driving range ...", I would hope the implied increase in range in winter still will be substantial.

 

The original text looks like Japanese translated to French retranslated to English...
Not connected to this text, I wish the usable capacity will be ~65%, this means that the EV range on the EPA test could be 24 miles by the following calculation:
EPA EV efficiency anticipated by Toyota: 120 MPGe or 0.28 kWh/mile.
65% of 8.8 is 5.7 kWh, divided by 0.85 charging losses gives 6.7 kWh from the wall.
6.7kWh / 0.28 kWh/mile = ~24 Miles EPA EV range.

I buy this

 

IMO charging losses are not applicable for this calculation (it is applicable for your pocket expenses )
After car is unplugged from the grid with 100% charged battery it has usable capacity of about 6.18KWh as been reported early.
6.18 / 0.28KWh/mile = 22.07 miles range

 

You are mistaken. EPA score for EV efficiency is calculated using electricity consumption from the wall, so the 0.28 kWh/mile you mention is including charging losses.
Anyways, the above numbers are already outdated as Toyota announced new EPA estimates of 133 MPGe and 25 miles EV range so, to recalculate: 133 MPGe gives 27.2 kWh/100miles, EPA may round it to 27 on the sticker.
Using 15% charging losses, 0.272 kWh/mile from wall will give 0.231 kWh/mile in battery and 25 miles will give 5.78 kWh usable capacity or 66%.
However, Toyota said they improved charging efficiency in the new charger, so if we assume 10% losses:
0.272 kWh/mile from wall will give 0.245 kWh/mile in battery and 25 miles will give 6.12 kWh usable capacity or 70%.
So we can assume IMO that the usable capacity in the new battery is something between 66% and 70% of total capacity.

 

Where can I download the European manual ?

 

I don't know.

 

Ok do you allready have access to it ?
Sounded like a quote right out of the manual .

 

I have a printed copy, if I can help...

 

Well lucky you !
How did you get hold of it ?
Will the European HUD finally be able to show turn by turn navigation again,just as in gen. 3 ?
Anyway have fun reading the manual !

 

I think you are speaking of the 2017 Prius PHV manual which I do not have. I have the manual of my PiP.