Fancy a lithium-ion powered plug-in hybrid?

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http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/next-pr...rged-178746.php

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(brandon @ Jun 6 2006, 01:39 PM) [snapback]266774[/snapback]</div>

or read it here:
Tuesday 30th May 2006
Prius to be given turbo boost

Our insiders have blown the cover on a turbocharged prototype which is being tested in Japan. Auto Express was the first magazine to reveal plans for a 100mpg-plus successor to the Prius in issue 904 - and now we can spill the beans on how it will be done. In its efforts to come up with a car that blends economy, low emissions and performance at an affordable price, Toyota has decided to use a lean-burn 1.8-litre turbo engine. Meanwhile, the THS-II hybrid system will be upgraded with efficient lithium ion batteries, which will allow the electric motor to deliver greater performance because the cells recharge quickly and hold more power for longer. To further improve efficiency, it's also thought that Toyota is considering a plug-in system, similar to that used on the Amberjac Projects Prius. The socket will allow owners to top up the battery when it's parked. Insiders at Toyota are excited about the newcomer, and are promising greater performance and super-low emissions for less than £20,000.

 

I more or less expected the plug and the Li-Ion batteries, but the turbo is very interesting. I wonder if the parts will work on an older model? To increase efficiency and compensate for altitude, of course.

 

Great news, but let's be carful about UK mpg numbers. 100 mpg is valid in the UK, but not in the US, where a gallon is smaller. 100mpg UK = (only) 83 mpg US.

(I often see "inflated" MPG claims (especially on diesel discussion boards) when people take UK numbers and assume they apply to the US - yet another reason to go metric).

 

Meanwhile, the THS-II hybrid system will be upgraded with efficient lithium ion batteries, which will allow the electric motor to deliver greater performance because the cells recharge quickly and hold more power for longer.
**********
lets talk about batteries.
Ni-Cad & Ni-MH can be recharged 1000 times(full drain to full charge)(and have 'memory problems')
(and self discharge )and low internal resistance-can deliver HIGH amperage
lithium ion can only take 100 full cycles (and have better weight to A/hr capacity, and are less prone to
self-discharge. higher internal resistance = lower amperage.
also more sensitive to charging conditions = have been known to explode)
I hope they have a lithium cell that overcomes these problems

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dr Why @ Jun 6 2006, 05:56 PM) [snapback]266986[/snapback]</div>

Good news. They will. Looked into Li-Ion Power tools lately?

 

Well 83 mpg, Li-ion and plug in are all good. I am worried about the ice. Larger displacement, 1.8 vs. current 1.5; how does that save gas? A turbo? That does not sound reliable or durable. I could see the turbo if there was a drop in engine size. Sounds like Toyota is trying to increase the performance (0-60 times)with a mpg increase. So if We kept the current ice or used a turbo with, say, 1.0 displacement and no increase in acceleration maybe we would get 100 mpg. I like that scenario more. We need to make Toyota favor mpg and durability to acceleration. Who is the Priuschat-Toyota liason?

 

Clett,

That thing is pretty cool. Thanks.

 

I, too, would like to see Toyota put in a turbo charged engine. But a smaller one at say about 1 L displacement and perhaps even 3 cylinders. Therefore, it would be more efficient-less weight/size than the current version but with similar power. From what I can tell a turbo charger is compatible with the Miller-Atkinson cycle; it just allows more fuel/air to be forced into each cylinder during a cycle. And from what I've read, turbo chargers can be made quite reliable and long-lived these days. Short of putting in a completely new type of ICE it seems to me that turbo charging offers the best bang for the (efficiency) buck short term.

Recently, I read a disturbing blurb on Li ion batteries. An article stated a little known fact that Li ion batteries loose about 20% of their energy capacity each year even if the batteries are never used. And this does seem to correspond to my experience with Li ion batteries in some electronic gadgets where at least presumably they were charged/discharged properly but were not used very often. After a couple of years they did not last very long on a full charge.

Add this and some of the other constraints that Li ion batteries have (expense, explosion hazard, fewer charge/discharge cycles, etc) and it would appear that Li ion based traction batteries for vehicles may be a ways off yet.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kram @ Jun 8 2006, 11:06 AM) [snapback]267965[/snapback]</div>

If you happen to run across this article online again sometime, could you post a link to it?

 

http://www.valence.com/SafetyVideo.asp

Here's one of many companies leading the charge (pun intended) for Lithium...no explosiveness, no charge-level issues nor longevity issues. Just more power per weight than NiMH.

Prius '09 will be lithium. Google that one.

Cheers,

Curt.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(brandon @ Jun 8 2006, 12:25 PM) [snapback]267981[/snapback]</div>

There's always Wikpedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion

- Tom

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom_06 @ Jun 8 2006, 01:02 PM) [snapback]268005[/snapback]</div>

You beat me to post!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kram @ Jun 8 2006, 12:06 PM) [snapback]267965[/snapback]</div>

These numbers seem to happen when the battery is stored at 100% capacity. At 40% capacity (according to wikipedia), the annual loss is 4%.

Toyota will spec the batteries for 10 years if the past is any guide, and it already seems a sure bet that the 2009 model will be Li-Ion. I'm not worried.