1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Gen 2 owner considering a Gen 3

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by dragonrand, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. dragonrand

    dragonrand Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    74
    22
    0
    Location:
    Springfield, MO
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    I bought a used 2005 Package 6 in 2007 when it had 56k miles. I'm now at 295k miles, still on the original 12V and HV batteries. I use maybe 1.5 - 2 quarts of oil every 5k miles. My average milage has dropped over the last couple of years by about 5-7 mpg. I used to get from 44-50 mpg depending on the season, now I get 39-45 average. In an effort to slow oil usage, I began running heavier weight oils a year or two ago. My best guess as to the cause of my dropping milage would be a combination of the heavier oil, a weaker HV battery, and lower engine compression due to age.

    I've replaced both rear taillight assemblies due to problems with the brake LED panels. My combination meter began having troubles three weeks after Toyota's extended warranty on the part expired. It still usually initializes, and when it occasionally doesn't, I can usually employ a trick to get it working if I'm on the ball. A few months ago my airbag warning light began showing, though it occasionally still goes off after startup.

    I've had a P0420 code for a couple of years that used to go away or stay away with a reset, now it's pretty much always there. A couple of months ago a new code, P1121 started showing up. From what I've read, neither one is all that serious, and both could be rather difficult to resolve. Although the car still runs fine and has given me my money's worth, I'm starting to feel that it may be time to move on.

    I have a few questions:

    1) Would you attempt to replace or rebuild the HV battery, or to resolve the catalytic converter and coolant control valve problems on a vehicle this old?

    2) Did any of you as Gen 3 owners also own a Gen 2, and do you like the Gen 3 as much?

    I also have the JBL premium sound in my Prius, and I very much like it. Will I like the sound in any version of the Gen 3? Sound quality is important to me, as I spend lots of time in my car.

    Thanks!
     
    Aaron Vitolins likes this.
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    putting more money into your '05 is a very personal decision. i wouldn't have kept it this long, so my opinion is worthless.
    i went from an '08 to a '12 and am very happy with it. not a fan of the flying bridge, but got used to it. it's pretty much the same car otherwise. some say gen 3 isn't built for the long haul like gen 2, and 2010's have had some oil burning issues around 100k.
    as far as sound, it depends on the package. i'm not impressed with mine, but neither was i on my '04 or '08.
     
    dragonrand likes this.
  3. PriusNP

    PriusNP Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    85
    17
    0
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Have experience with both. Me personally I like gen 2 more. I feel the gen 2 is more reliable I agree with Bisco the flying bridge is not my thing. Get another gen 2 I did. Gen 3 does have more pep and better mpg. At the end of the day they are great cars it's a prius

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    dragonrand likes this.
  4. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,309
    3,586
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Gen3 has quite a bit more cargo room and you can get c v pip or lift back but I am still in Gen2

    About 3-4 more ft3 in a Gen3 much of which is in the back so with sleek Gen4 look I do not know if we see that much space again soon and the PiP does not crimp on main cargo area
     
    dragonrand likes this.
  5. Bluegrassman

    Bluegrassman Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    229
    184
    0
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    We have a Gen 2 and a Gen 3. Love them both. Definitely better MPG with the Gen 3. Flying bridge is in the way. Gen 3 more cargo space, but less backseat foot room.
    Gen 3 more peppy. I do prefer the real leather seats in the Gen 2 over the "softex" faux leather in my Gen 3.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  6. Bill the Engineer

    Bill the Engineer Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    1,044
    2,272
    467
    Location:
    At the beach in Delaware...
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I have owned both a Gen-II and a Gen-III since 2010. You will love the Gen-III once you get used to the different location of the controls.

    [​IMG]

    Bill the Engineer
     
  7. AzWxGuy

    AzWxGuy Weather Guy

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    959
    485
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius
    Model:
    Limited
    I put 124K miles on my 2008 in three years, took it up to almost 200K, before trading it in on my 2011. It was using a little oil and I was starting to hear rear wheel bearings complaining. The trade-in happened fast, as these opportunities sometimes do. I had just replaced the tires on the '08, which was certainly bad timing on my part. I've put about 65K on my 2011 now, drive about 35K a year, and I'm pleased with it. It is a personal decision to repair/rebuild or replace, and continued trouble-free operation mostly luck if you believe in that sort of thing. My version 3 with NAV (that I do not use) has premium sound with similar speaker placement to my Gen II (which had the JBL 6-disk) but seems to have more stereo separation and image. Volume only goes to 55, which is plenty loud.
     
  8. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    2,207
    897
    0
    Location:
    Torrance, CA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Wow 295K miles; 240K miles on your end. Nice.

    P0420 will likely require a new replacement cat piece ($1K OEM) or a weld on cat ($100+). However, given the oil consumption rate, the engine is well worn.

    P1121 requires the 3-way coolant control valve to be replaced. $150 part, $20/gal of Toyota SLLC.

    Hmm, don't know how handy you are and if you have tools. This would be a good project car for an engine swap, $500 for a used low mileage engine. If you have dependents, a hand me down for them as you upgrade to a Gen3?
     
    dragonrand likes this.
  9. genii_rich

    genii_rich New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2016
    9
    4
    0
    Location:
    florida
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius
    Model:
    III
    I bought a gen 2 at 100k miles for the purpose of flipping it to make some money off of since it was a one owner in pristine condition.Put about 10k miles on it within like 3-4 months and I ended up liking it enough that I sold it for a bit more than I bought it for and invested in a 2014 gen 3. The overall experience is the same. Im still trying to master the HSI to get optimal mpg but its a nice upgrade. The nav i don't use. But the soft ex/leather seats and bluetooth is nice. If i were you i would upgrade. At that the current milage you're at, it'll be more costly to keep it
     
    dragonrand likes this.
  10. dragonrand

    dragonrand Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    74
    22
    0
    Location:
    Springfield, MO
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    So this all started because I test-drove a red 2014 from Craigslist. It turned out to be a two, and I didn't care for the audio quality at all.

    I just got back from my local Toyota dealership. They have a used 2012 Prius 4. I listened to the JBL premium sound, and I could be satisfied with it - it compares favorably to my Package VI JBL premium sound in my '05, although I still think mine might have the edge.

    They want a bit over 16k for it. It has 45k miles, which is lower at 4 years than my used GenII had at 2 years old. It's that baby powder blue - I don't know the name of the color yet - which I don't really care for. But I like the interior. The cloth seats in my Gen II are definitely dirty on the driver's side, so I like the idea of the leather, if it wears well and can continue to look clean and new.

    Like everyone else, I hate the flying bridge. But I'll get used to it. You can get used to anything if you give yourself long enough.

    It's really got me thinking about going back and making a deal, even though it's older than I want and not my favorite color. I could probably drive it for at least 6 years, at which point my next car could be all-electric! :-D

    I wonder what I could realistically get for my car. I'm sure I won't get even 1k as trade-in, but maybe I could get a couple grand selling it privately.
     
  11. dragonrand

    dragonrand Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    74
    22
    0
    Location:
    Springfield, MO
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Yeah, I don't feel like replacing the cat. If I were going to drive it for another two years I might do it, and the coolant control valve. But my gut tells me it'll have suffered some seriously expensive failure by then.

    It's too bad the P1121 code didn't show up a couple of months earlier. About 2-3 months ago, I replaced my original water pump, so I JUST drained and replaced all the coolant with the Toyota SLLC.

    An engine swap would be way beyond me. I did the water pump, and I've swapped out taillight and headlight assemblies as stated above. That's about as far as I'd want to go with my skills and tools.

    I wonder, who do you think should be the target buyer for a car like this? I don't want to sell it to someone who doesn't know jack about cars. Maybe someone who would enjoy rebuilding or replacing the engine, or replacing cells in the battery back. The car was well cared-for, inside and out. Somebody could really enjoy driving it while they fix and tinker.
     
  12. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    2,207
    897
    0
    Location:
    Torrance, CA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    You could list on Craigslist.

    I think better would be here on PC's private sale. Private Sales | PriusChat
    There is probably someone in your area who tinkers or wants a project car.

    CarMax is another good option for used cars.

    Trade-in makes life easy, at a cost of less money.
     
  13. dragonrand

    dragonrand Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    74
    22
    0
    Location:
    Springfield, MO
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Thanks for the suggestion, didn't know about the Private Sales forum here. I just listed it there. I'll look into CarMax as well. I put it on CL about 30 minutes ago.
     
  14. mmmodem

    mmmodem Senior Taste Tester

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    2,732
    1,703
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I went the opppsite way and bought a 2012 and then a 2005. Both are base models. I was so impressed by the Gen3 I

    If I were you, I'd get a newer 2015 Two for less money and upgrade the audio system with a touchscreen Android and apple CarPlay. Entune on the Gen 3 and 4 is quite the garbage. I have Entune on my Gen 3 and use plain old BT audio which takes 30 seconds longer to connect than the aftermarket BT adapter in my 2005. Entune may add another 30 seconds or never connect all requiring restarting the car.
     
  15. dragonrand

    dragonrand Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    74
    22
    0
    Location:
    Springfield, MO
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    How does the audio quality of the Android unit compare to the JBL premium audio in the Four? I really do want clear, full, natural-sounding audio that still sounds clean at high volumes. And does it sound good even with the stock speakers in the Two?

    I don't know if I'll ever use Bluetooth for car audio. It just doesn't sound as good to my ears as using a wired connection. For the first few years I owned my 2005, I used a cassette tape adapter to connect my phone to car audio. I finally added an iPod connection kit, and was very pleased with the improvement in audio quality that a direct digital connection gave me.
     
  16. mmmodem

    mmmodem Senior Taste Tester

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    2,732
    1,703
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I meant get an entire aftermarket system with new speakers, head unit, amp and sub if you're so inclined. The base audio system is as cheap as it gets. The Gen 3 is no better than a Gen 2 IMO. My motivation really is to save you aggravation from the Entune system on a Prius. It's really bad.

    Have you listened to BT 4.0 audio yet? BT in 2005 was mediocre but these days I can't tell the difference anymore between wired and BT on any audio system.
     
  17. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    2,207
    897
    0
    Location:
    Torrance, CA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    +1 on aftermarket audio.

    You could get a nice double din head unit w/ GPS. Prices have come down considerably; the really nice units are still up there. The one drawback w/ aftermarket headunits is that it may be difficult to fit b/c of the non rectangular dash around the radio; more of an issue w/ Gen2. Gen3 is visibly better b/c the dash around the radio opening is more or less flat. Amazon dash kit LINK. Theft is always a possibility w/ aftermarket headunits. But I

    Decent aftermarket speakers will be better than the factory JBL stuff.

    5&6 channel amps are cheap. Alpine has one of the smallest sized 5 channel amps that are reasonably priced.
    Subwoofers are cheap too.

    You'll want to make sure you get good speakers, amp, and RCA cables, b/c these carry your sound. A crappy headunit will sound great w/ good equipment. A good headunit will sound even better.

    There are some good fitting GPS headunits, specifically for Gen3, on Amazon, from China. The drawback w/ all of these units, seem to be lack pre-amp (RCA) outputs. The price is appealing though; LINK.

    Checkout Crutchfield for headunits for Gen3. http://www.crutchfield.com/m_266150/Car-Stereos.html They may even match lower prices found elsewhere, or drop their price a little.

    Its amazing how much car stereo equipment prices have dropped compared to the 90s.
     
  18. dragonrand

    dragonrand Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    74
    22
    0
    Location:
    Springfield, MO
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    I like the drop-in units that I've seen (like the pumpkin). The feature set looks great, but I don't hear a lot of discussion about audio quality. I've also seen references to the fact that those units can drop into a base model, but not one with the JBL premium audio. Is that because the JBL premium audio system has an outboard amp?

    I'd probably start with the head unit and move forward from there if I need to.

    I thought I had a blown speaker in my Gen 2 at one point. So I went to a local car audio place and asked them to replace all 4 speakers with better ones. It sounded like crap - the bottom end was no longer there, and it sounded harsh to my ears. So they took the speakers back and I replaced the bad speaker with a factory one from Toyota. The head unit, the amp, and speakers were all tuned to work together. I think the impedance on the factory speakers was 4 ohm, iirc?

    I'm very curious what my upgrade options would be if I got the one I'm looking at (the 2012 with Premium JBL audio). Having listened to it, I'm satisfied enough with the sound, but people seem to be citing Entune as the major reason to go aftermarket. What exactly IS Entune? My Gen 2 has nothing like it, so couldn't I ignore that feature set if I don't like it and just use apps from my phone for everything?
     
  19. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    2,207
    897
    0
    Location:
    Torrance, CA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    I believe JBL cars are a little more difficult to work w/ or won't work w/ after market headunits b/c of the JBL AMP.

    The factory headunit puts out so little power, that even a weak aftermarket speaker would sound crappy. Factory output is probably single digits of power per channel, MAX. A lot of aftermarket speakers now a days have a relatively high RMS input, say 25-50watts, with peak input of 100watts.

    In theory it should have worked. But reality is a different story as you found out.

    I dont know anything about Entune. Look at the sales brochures for the year Prius you want.
    Auto-Brochures.com|Toyota Car PDF Sales Brochure/Catalog/Flyer/Info Avalon Camry Celica, Corolla Corona Echo Mark II Mirai Prius Yaris
     
  20. mmmodem

    mmmodem Senior Taste Tester

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    2,732
    1,703
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I don't have the JBL premuim audio system so I can't say for sure it is more difficult. I will say that on cars I worked on in the past, the upgraded audio system is more difficult to work with because the speakers are wired to the OEM amp and it doesn't use RCA like aftermarket amps. Therefore, when you try to upgrade the headunit, you'll have to run new speaker wires. On a base unit, you just wire up harness and you're good to go.

    Entune is Toyota's version of Apply Carplay. The major problem I have with it is the system is slow and rarely updated. I'll say this, it worked perfectly with iOS 6. After that, it just crashes too often to be reliable. Imagine if you had to wait up to a minute for the system to boot. So by the time the system recognizes your phone or doesn't because it is stuck, you're well on your way. Sometimes disconnecting your phone will fix it. Other times, pulling over and shutting off the car will. I don't know if the new Gen 4 Prius fixes the audiobook problem. For some f*^^king reason, Apple decided audiobooks and podcasts were no longer music with iOS 8 and moved them to a different directory structure. Entune doesn't know anything past iOS 6 and guess what? Audiobooks and podcasts are all I listen to on my commute. I decided to just call my audiobooks something else so they stay in the audio directory.

    But then last year. Toyota ended their search deal with Microsoft Bing so you had to upgrade Entune or searches on the navigation will no longer work. I updated and apparently Toyota decided continuing music from mp3's is bad. It's better to start over at the beginning for every digital song. So now my hour long podcasts and audiobooks are useless. Toyota is like Apple and doesn't allow downgrading.

    So of course, you can use the AUX or BT audio and everything will be controlled by your phone just fine, which is what I use. If you say you don't have an iPhone, there are also problems with USB drives (Cannot search by file name, can only search my ID3 tags which means you have to use Entunes own sorting schemes) and Android phones. Curiously, Windows Phones are unaffected. but that's because Entune is incompatible with Windows Phone.