Rust on brakes

I did read a post or two about brake rust. That’s why after rain or snow, I will pop it in neutral and use the brake pads for the last couple blocks before reaching home. Hoping to create enough heat to dry them up or at least wipe them off.

 

Did you get a second opinion. Just because they are rusty doesn't mean they needed replacement does it? There are pictures posted here of some pretty rusty brake rotors because some people use regen braking almost exclusively. You did mention that they seemed to be working OK, what led you to beleive they needed replacement? Did you happen to get any pictures of them?

Here is one picture: http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/brakerust.jpg

You can do a search of this forum for the word "brakes" and find quite a bit of information.

BTW welcome to Priuschat.

 

I too wish you had pictures of before and after. Light rust on underused rotors is not a major issue, nor will it hamper braking. The friction of the pads against the rotor wil remove the rust on the rotor.

The friction brakes on the classic Prius are used much more heavily than on 2nd gen. Both generations of Prius use the friction brakes at every complete stop, however the 2nd gen Prius uses pads only in panic situations and when vehicle speed drops below 7mph. Classic Prius uses a lot more of the fricition braking system, and as such I'm kind of surprised that there would be any rust issue.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(betho @ Jun 9 2006, 12:18 PM) [snapback]268662[/snapback]</div>

Anytime a car sits for more then a couple of days they will get a very light surface rust which is normal.just like leaving a piece of metal outside in the weather,sounds like the mechanic you used took you for a ride around the block!!

 

I think selling the car because of "having" to do a brake job is pretty funny. I hope you didn't go to Midas.....if you did you probably most certainly got taken around the block. You are still going to have to do brake jobs with the Yaris and will be spending more money on the gas. Your choice however.

 

oof. sounds all wrong to me. i'll get the professional opinion on this tonight. but if i recall correctly rust happens on the outer layer, and there's this great thing called a brake lathe that removes the outer layer to reveal smooth rotor...

 

The original posters' vehicle was a 2002 Prius with 36k miles in Ithaca NY. That for sure is an area where roads are salted in the winter, and that's probably connected to this problem. If one (inner) side of Bethos' front disks are more heavily corroded, this strongly suggests that the caliper on that side is not pushing the pads. This, may I suggest, is the underlying problem which needs to be addressed. Whether you also need new pads and/or disks is yet to be determined.

With a good effort directed towards Toyota USA central, this could all be repaired for free. Whether it will in this instance remains to be seen. As Prius owners, our best leverage is probably that without fully functional brake systems, people could die. It is my strong opinion that Toyota cental wishes to avoid that, and that it is your best approach.

So in this instance there are several braking components which may need to be replaced. Not being there, I cannot say which ones. If corrosion in the inside caliper(s) has polluted the brake fluid, that needs to be replaced as well.

I do not believe that Bethos' problem has anything to do with the heat shields, but if a careful examination of the situation indicates otherwise, this would be very important for us to know. There have been a few brake corrosion problems in the classic Prius and AFAIK all of them have been in salty winter places.

Betho, please keep us appraised of further developments.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(betho @ Jun 9 2006, 03:01 PM) [snapback]268794[/snapback]</div>

The Yaris uses the same type of brakes the Prius does, at least the ones you're having a problem with. Why is a brake job after four years of service an extraordinary experience? Even if you don't use them many miles they take a lot of abuse over time, and wear out just by conditions and age.

I don't see any effort to be directed toward Toyota. Either the dealer is taking him for a ride, or conditions causes the brakes to require service after four years, neither of which is strange.

Toyota makes fine brake systems, no one is dying. Talk about sensationalism tochatihu!!! The design is fine and the system requires regular inspection and maintainence, as it says in the manual.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(betho @ Jun 9 2006, 03:01 PM) [snapback]268794[/snapback]</div>

It's hard to see how rust all by itself could cause the pads to wear only in one spot; there must be some other problem. Every have an accident with this car? Maybe crash into a curb or some big potholes? Was it ever left parked outdoors and unused for several weeks or more?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gschoen @ Jun 9 2006, 02:44 PM) [snapback]268878[/snapback]</div>

If perhaps I was sensational before, I shall try to do better now.

Because of electrical renerative braking, Prius' friction brakes last nearly forever. Their low duty cycle seems to be linked with a low incidence of corrosion problems for drivers experiencing salty winter roads.

As Toyota has been at times congenial to repairing such Prius corrosion damage in the past, it only makes sense to hope for the same in new cases. If we are asking for too much in this, then no doubt the requests will be denied.

Furthermore and at some risk of sensationalizing, iron and copper oxide particles afloat in the brake fluid lines could cause expensive, even critical damage to the ABS system. AFAIK such has not happened in Prius. But as other Prius drivers are important to me, I will continue to say, if you have any reason to suspect that corrosion has contaminated your brake fluid, get it flushed out and replaced. Paid for by you or the company I don't much care. But I see no need to stand by idle and allow somebody's ABS system to be compromised in ways that could be easily remedied.

No one should suppose that I am the big guru on brakes. In fact I am still learning. How bout you read whatever you can find on the subject, and talk to the most experienced brake people you can find? My guess is that you will then conclude that most of the time everything is just fine, but once in a while, there is a need to take specific repair steps.

Ultimately there may be but little disagreement between gschoen and me. One possible area is whether Toyota shops do, each and every one, perform the appropriate preventative maintenance on the vehicles that they see. It is when they do not, as appears to be the case presented by the original poster, that additional steps may be appropriate.

Thanks to gschoen for raising the issue again and causing me to try to express myself more clearly.

 

-there's no way the brake pads were worn out
-the rust buildup would be on the surface, which would eat into the brake pad, so that was probably good to change
-the rotors, however, you should have been able to turn those at least once (brake lathe)

you definitely got screwed on the rotors. lazy person didn't want to go through the trouble of turning the rotors, so they sold you on new rotors.

sorry

it's a factor of the weather up there. and there is a heat shield that can keep moisture in. they can even get packed with snow.

 

After seeing this thread, I looked at my own rotors for rust. Sure enough, they were rusted, with no sign of use. I have just a little over 4k miles on the car, and it has been driven in the rain as well as washed, so I knew they got wet. Last Saturday I simply got to a straight stretch of road, checked my rear mirror, and since it showed there were no cars on the road around me at all, I stomped on the brakes. When I got home, the rotors were quite clean. I am going to have to do this regularly.

 

Rust on rotors is normal for many cars. My 96 Audi A4 would have eternally rusty rotors, so bad that they wouild stick to the pads and break loose with a bang if I let the car sit for a few hours after washing it. The rust is WAY softer than the pads. The first 50 feet of driving with the brakes applied will clear the rust and you will be back to bright shiny rotors. If this wasn't happening something else was wrong.

 

You don't really want to *stomp* on the brakes, you want to do a long
slow evenly-pressured but reasonably firm slowdown, preferably going
downhill. Abrupt pressure changes can cause just enough uneven wear
that over time, you could wind up with roughly the same process that
causes moguls to build up on ski slopes -- friction applied more at
one particular point can actually start digging into rotor surfaces
and after a while it's a runaway process. An old girlfriend killed
her honda civic brakes in about two years, just because of the
abrupt, jerky way she habitually stopped. If you apply the pressure
slowly and keep it even, you'll tend to flatten the hills instead
of push them higher.
.
It's hard to visualize, but rotors/drums are not 100% solid and rigid
and they *do* go through hell.
.
_H*

 

It has not been mentioned yet in this thread, that if you apply the brake pedal when in "N", you will be doing 100% friction braking. Couple this with Hobbit's suggestion of gentleness, and you are utilizing the best available means of smoothing everything out. Short of disassembly and skimming the disks, of course.