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Some Prime Questions

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by chiefofsages, Jan 16, 2017.

  1. chiefofsages

    chiefofsages New Member

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    For a while I really wanted to get the new Volt, but my finances unfortunately won't really permit that with any level of comfort. If for some reason my hours are reduced at work, or a bill pops up unexpectedly, I run the risk of not being able to pay the ~$600/month bill, even with the tax credits. Therefore, I've been looking into the Prime to see if that'll be worth upgrading to. With the tax credits and lower price tag, it wouldn't be all that different than what I am currently paying.

    I currently own a 2014 regular Prius, no special trim or model. While the car has been great, it's electrical side is so limited. I live in a hilly area, and MANY times I get only partway down the hill before the battery is full and often have to drive in a more restricted way to utilize the EV mode. Therefore, I want something that not only will allow me to stay in an EV mode without needing to pay too much attention to speed, terrain, or acceleration, I also want a battery that won't fill up 25% of the way down a hill. Just today I was running an errand and twice I went down some large hills and I thought to myself "all this energy going to waste because my battery is full".

    I plan on taking one out for a test drive soon, but even so, I have some questions that I hope people can help answer. To give some background, my commute to work is approximately 20 miles each way. I am not sure I would be able to charge at work, though my supervisor could surprise me and say sure. I live in rural Western Massachusetts, so we get plenty of cold days. While I do "speed" on some of the back roads, it's never more than 50-55. 60 if I am not paying close attention. Right now with my Gen 3 Prius I get about 55 MPG on a warm day and 40 or so on a cold day (though that also includes some idling to warm the car up).

    1. How strong is the regenerative braking? Is it comparable to the normal Prius, or is it stronger? I get that it will regenerate over a longer period due to the larger capacity battery, but if I'm going at a good clip down a hill, the RB in my car will only keep you at the speed you're going, it really won't slow you down. With the Volt, it can REALLY slow you down. I want to know if it's better or mostly on par with previous models.

    2. How is the car going up hills in electric? I live in a hilly area, and while some of my trip is flat, other parts are hilly. I get that I might not always be able to keep it solely EV during some steep spots, but my current car is useless going up even small hills unless it has a full charge, and even then it just scrapes by. I want to make sure some of the smaller hills will be able to be climbed quickly enough without turning on the ICE.

    3. What kind of air conditioning/heating does the car have? Does it use any electrical heating that might be quicker than the traditional heating of an ICE? Though it might be more energy-intense, if it's faster I might leave it running for a shorter period of time. Also, can it heat/cool while being plugged in? If yes, does it use more power than it is able to draw (would it have less range once I got into the car assuming it was plugged in up until I left).

    Any information would be appreciated.
     
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    welcome! the prime has a heat pump for heat, down to 14f, and a/c. so, no engine required for heat in most situations.
    it does have pre conditioning, but will pause charging until set temp is reached, then resume.

    i'll let the owners talk about regen and ev power. all the best!(y)
     
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  3. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Letting off the gas pedal is supposedly 60% stronger than the regular Prius. However, due to the larger battery almost any B-mode or brake pedal riding in Ev mode will just regenerate.

    It has enough power to go up virtually any hill in Ev mode. The math says it should get maximum Ev speed (84MPH) up a 7% grade.

    Gas-injected heat pump for both. Unless the battery is dead, the temperature is below 14F or you need the front defroster, it shouldn't start the ICE.

    Yes. Uses more power than 120V charging can provide (so it will slightly drain the battery), 240V can provide sufficient power for pre-heat or pre-cool.
     
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  4. dalcon95

    dalcon95 Senior Member

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    I live in a hilly area in upstate South Carolina. I have a 2nd generation 2005 Prius and a 2017 Prius Prime Advanced. I bought my Prime on December 3rd. I have a 21 mile commute to work. Mostly uphill there. I fully charge the car during the night and on mornings where it is cold, I use my app for the Advance and turn on the heat as well as front and rear defrost as needed. As long as the car is plugged in, the defrosts and heat use electricity from the house and not the battery, so I have a full battery and comfortable ride before I leave. The car is rated with a 25 mile range on a battery charge. As time goes on the range has slowly been getting longer. It currently is at 30 miles of range per charge. I found out to that just because it says that is the miles of range you have, doesn't mean that is all that you will get. By driving habits, you can go further than the rated range. I get to work after 21 miles and still have 10 miles left of charge to go home on without charging at work. I have the same tank of gas that I bought the car with so far with 160 miles left on the tank of gas. I have driven 1375 miles so far since new. The car is saying I am averaging 173 mpg right now. The tank of gas will last me 2 months so far. The regenerative braking is the same as my 2005 Prius other than I have noticed that the car learns my driving routes and it is more aggressive with its regenerative braking when it knows I am getting close to an intersection that is has seen I have stopped before. I love the Prime!! Don't regret getting it at all!! Hope you have good luck in getting one.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    gas injected as in gasoline?
     
  6. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    No - coolant fluid. It's a heat pump that injects some of its own working fluid into a strategic location in the heat pump to make it more efficient when the temperature differential is high (like when the temperature is cold outside).
     
    #6 Lee Jay, Jan 16, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2017
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  7. jcburns

    jcburns Junior Member

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    It takes a while to get your head around the idea that you don't have to drive it like an all-electric car with a 25-26 mile hard limit (but you can). I'm amazed how much traveling I can get on a charge and even with occasional segments of our trip being more HV than EV you still end up going a long long long long way between gas fill-ups. We got back from a longer road trip last week and have about 10% of a tank of gas left and that tiny bit has lasted (and will last) a surprisingly long while.

    Oh, and about heat. On cold days (in the southeast I understand that's relative, but we've driven this across the rockies and cascades as well) the combination of the steering wheel and seat warmers do a great job of getting you comfortable fast without having to fill the cabin with temperate air right away.
     
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  8. Insirt

    Insirt Junior Member

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    The regenerative braking works well, coming about 1000 feet down a mountain I was able to charge for at least 4 miles (might have been 7, I'm getting too old to remember). I would have gone up the mountain all EV but my battery was drained at the time. EV driving fine for all situations, it is only slightly slower 0-60 than HV mode.

    On a separate note, dalcon, you are in SC? I haven't seen your posts before. I live in the Upstate, which sounds like where you are (but I'm in Florida for school right now). Here I thought I was the only one in the Upstate with a Prime..
     
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  9. nwmountaineer

    nwmountaineer New Member

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    I have a similar commute - 19 miles one way - with a mix of hills and freeway driving. Today was my first commute and I made it to work with a reported 5.8 miles remaining. On the return home, a reported 4.2 miles remaining. Temperature was about 32-35F. The Prius Prime has an 8.8 kWh battery vs the Volt's 18 kWh battery.
     
  10. dalcon95

    dalcon95 Senior Member

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    I live in Easley SC. Bought my Prime from Toyota of Easley. They got the car on December 2nd and I bought it on the 3rd. They were disappointed that I got it so quickly from them. I knew I wanted one and wanted to see it in person. When I did, I was sold on it being sold to me. Lol. I have also lived in Florida before living up here. I been up here since 93. I lived in Titusville FL from 1983 to 1993. I had enough heat and moved to the mountains up here. Love it up here. Of course if I want to see the beach, I can take about a 2 1/2 hour drive to Charleston.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    #10 dalcon95, Jan 16, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2017
  11. mmmodem

    mmmodem Senior Taste Tester

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    If something happens to your job or something else comes up and you have trouble making a $600 payment, you should consider keeping your current car. Even if the monthly payments are the same as you currently pay, you will be extending it many more months. A 2014 Prius will very reliable for many more years for you save up an emergency fund.
     
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  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I can remember back in 2005 when we'd gotten our first Prius how many times there were discussions about how to maximize Prius mileage by playing various 'driving tricks' to exploit the traction battery. The only thing I found was a 'forbidden band', ~39-45 mph, that marked the transition between 'hybrid mode' and 'engine must run' mode, 41-42 mph. You needed some head room on each side to avoid accidental excursions that could needlessly spin up or down the engine. Slightly oversized tires allowed moving the true speed high enough that the car stayed in hybrid mode while keeping up with 40 mph posted, cross-town traffic. But the Prime has erased that distinction (the PiP might have done it first.)

    The Prime control laws have wiped out any transition speed up to ~84 mph. This wide speed range allows the engine to always operate at peak efficiency and bank/draw EV power as needed. In effect, the Prime has right-sized the traction battery and optimally integrated the control laws. It is the Prius some have wanted since the first Prius.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  13. Insirt

    Insirt Junior Member

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    Nice! I'm not far in Anderson when I'm up there. I do miss the mountains and the temperate climate. Down here the beach isn't so special anymore. I've lived up there a little over half my life, but I'm just 21.
     
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  14. chiefofsages

    chiefofsages New Member

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    It's not so much that I couldn't make it right now, but there might be a time when it could be difficult. For example, my electric bill and car payment will be due at the end of this month. Because of high electricity usage (stove was out and needed parts, so electric heat was run for a few weeks), my paycheck will cover those two, but not really anything else. I would have to use my credit card to make up the difference if my payment had been $600 instead.

    On the upside, I did get great news from my boss- I can charge at work. So, while it may not go EVERY mile in electric, if I charge up at home and at work, I should be able to do ~95% of my commute in electric. The last few miles of my drive home would be up some hills, so I doubt that it'll last the stretch.
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    maybe look for a used pip?
     
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  16. a_scalzi

    a_scalzi Junior Member

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    Question: Once you use up the Prime traction battery in EV mode and switch to HV mode and recharge the battery like a regular Prius can you switch back to EV mode? I have a 2013 Prius 5 with tech package and I can recharge the traction battery quite rapidly. I am dying to find out the answer on my own Prime but I have to wait until the end of February to pick it up.
     
  17. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Yes.

    Additionally, there is a CHG mode that forces the engine to run and charge the battery (up to 80%), allowing you to run in EV mode.
     
  18. a_scalzi

    a_scalzi Junior Member

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  19. chiefofsages

    chiefofsages New Member

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    So as it turns out, my dealer is willing to pretty much give me what I owe on my current car as a trade-in. So while I won't be making a dent in the new car, I won't owe anything on the old one.

    My question is this: How much is a reasonable offer to make? They showed me a red (premium color) with a few optional extras for 28,800. At first I thought 28,000 would be reasonable, but then my brother-in-law said to go even lower. Looking online, some even go so low as $26,000. I don't want to have to go through the whole bidding war bit over pennies, but I also don't want to be paying way more than I should. What have some of you paid?
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I'm thinking really hard of something constructive to say. I've always paid cash, and hold onto cars for a while. How about:

    When you bought the 2014, got into debt on it, was it your plan to walk away from it in 2~3 years, get the latest?