Car & Driver Says Prime Ugly, Too Slow

Exactly.

14% of Toyota's production sold in California must be compensated for with ZEV credits. A minimum of 3.0% must be true ZEV (read: BEVs, FCEVs), a maximum of 3.0% may be TZEV (PHEVs), Type 0 (sub-50 mile range EVs), and Neighborhood Electric Vehicles), a maximum of 2.0% may be AT-PZEVs (basically, things like the current Liftback and other vehicles with advanced vapor recovery systems), and 6.0% may be PZEVs (which most gasoline ICE vehicles can meet now).

Every credit that they can get from building a car is cheaper than buying one from Tesla.

 

We will be buying Primes on the black market soon.

 

ZEV credits

 

The Prime is noticeably slower than my Volt, 1st gen '14, during hard take off's, however its not that often im smashing the gas pedal like that. Driving normally, you dont really notice. As for the looks, I think the Prime looks awesome! inside and out, I really like what they have done.

 

That's just a Prius fanboy excuse

In seriousness, if high gas prices are needed to prop up sales, then the Prius is in trouble in the US. Toyota acknowledges this by the focus improvement on ride quality. The goal is to replace traditional ICE cars. With the Camry selling 300 to 400+ thousand a year, and the Corolla in the 300's, the Prius numbers are small potatoes.

Hopefully the next Camry hybrid will push it past the 10% of total model sales the hybrid is usually around, but gas prices are still low and people are switching to crossovers from cars.

 

I think that illustrates the point quite nicely.

Anything efficient is in trouble in this market, and is subject to cheap gas killing it.

 

Are buyers that fickle? For me fuel efficiency is a kick in itself; the cost saving is secondary. But then, we're only doing about 25 liters a month.

 

Normal Americans see compact cars as something they have to buy when gas is expensive, and rush back to their full size trucks and SUVs as soon as it's cheap again.

 

You have the heart of an engineer (and the diploma I presume, but that is besides the point.)

Your average American could not define efficiency if his life depended on it, and only cares to join the conversation at all when it costs "too much" to refuel.

 

Yes, they do, and that makes absolutely no sense to me. Trucks and SUVs are much less fun and much more work to drive, park, store, wash, polish and maintain. I use them when I have to not because I want to.

 

Yes.
Fuel efficiency alone isn't a sales draw. At times of high fuel prices, it will get sales, but many of those extra customers will abandon the model once they feel they don't need the efficiency anymore. The model needs more to attract buyers continously.


The EV experience offers more than efficiency alone, and the plug in segment isn't as down as the hybrid one.

The Rav4 hybrid is doing extremely well. At a glance it would seem to not be offering more than efficiency over the ICE model. If that was truly the case, it should be selling in the same proportion to the ICE as the Camry hybrid does. For buyers coming from a typical car, it let's them get the SUV they really want without giving up fuel efficiency they are use to. That is the car's more.

 

Yeah maybe RAV4 and it's ilk are where's some Prius people go, on the good times.

 

For a lot of people, the perceived safety of large vehicles is a lot higher than in a small vehicle. They have more mass, and are more likely to "win" in a collision (which means that people who choose smaller, more efficient vehicles (or even no vehicle at all) are at more danger, creating an arms race of vehicle mass). And, the higher seating position of trucks and SUVs both improves visibility of the road (at the expense of everyone else's visibility of the road, creating an arms race of vehicle height) and improves ingress and egress.

And, as far as cabin space, a modern full-size quad-cab pickup truck has an amazingly roomy interior for 5-6 people (depending on whether it has a center seat in the front, or a giant center console) - the full-size quad-cab ultra-short-bed pickup truck really is the new full-size American sedan.

As far as parking, a lot of the people that choose trucks are also anti-city, and they're in areas where parking spaces are sized for them. SUVs, OTOH, depending on the model (I'm lumping crossovers into SUVs here), can actually be easier to park than the equivalent car - a RAV4 isn't as long as a Camry, for instance (although it is a bit wider).

Washing and polishing? Most people just go through the automatic car wash, I think. (And, in the case of trucks, if you have messy cargo, it's far easier to clean out the cargo bay in a pickup (just hose it out) than it is to clean out the cargo bay in something like a Prius.)

Maintenance? Sometimes trucks are actually easier in this regard if you're doing your own maintenance (no need to jack it up to get underneath, often more room to work), but also, this is America, and people don't believe in maintenance, especially if it's leased - why maintain it when you're just going to turn it in after 3 years and get a new one?

It is worth noting that crossovers are taking off worldwide right now - even in fuel cost sensitive markets - because of the packaging improvements for a given footprint, relative to cars, and because of the added height's advantages for ingress and egress as well as visibility. (And, in Japan, many of the popular cars have crossover-like profiles, although many are modeled after vans rather than crossovers (which basically means more rounded styling with less attempts to look rugged).)

 

This height advantage for ingress/egress makes to sense to me. My elderly relatives much prefer to get in and out of my Prius than my mom's pickup specifically because of low step height. My mother-in-law needs a step stool to get in and out of their Tacoma but she manages in my Prius without issue.

 

Keep in mind, also, that a pickup is a bit different from a crossover, and a Gen 2 Prius has a fairly high seating position anyway compared to other similarly-sized cars (which helps ingress/egress).

Crossovers tend to not require climbing up into (but the appeal is that they don't require lowering oneself down into them, or climbing up out of), whereas trucks (especially full-size ones) do.

 

Hmmmm.
Interesting.
Doesn't that lend credence to the argument that people don't really WANT to drive Priuses but are sometimes compelled to because of commuting distances, HOV access, Federal kickbacks, etc?

My commute is 3 miles, so I can drive anything I want to.....including a 10-year-old SUV that's been paid for for 7 years.

 

Pretty much any Republican forced to consider the price of fuel and upkeep. Otherwise they would choose a Hummer.

 

of course most people don't want to drive priuseseses. isn't that a given? if gas never goes back to 3 and 4 dollars plus? game over.

 

I disagree. If I'm going to be having fun I am in my truck or Jeep or Charger (sometimes the Camaro if the wife lets me). If I'm in my Prius it means I'm going to or from work or doing chores like going to the grocery store. Keeping to just SUVs/trucks the Jeep is much more fun to drive than the Prius, I can have much for fun in my Jeep. The truck I can get to the places I like to go to have fun and I take along my canoe or fishing poles or hunting gear or.... and I don't care if it's wet or muddy or bloody when I throw it back in. When it comes to just commuting in the Prius I have to be aware of potholes and road debris in a way that I don't with the Jeep or truck, the charger is worse in this regard, but the Prius isn't as able to clear those things as my Jeep or truck. If it's going to snow I take my Jeep to work because I know that no matter what the weather does I can make it through in the Jeep, I wouldn't have that peace of mind in the Prius.

The Prius has its place in my garage, but so does a truck and a SUV. If I could only have one vehicle in my life it would very likely be a truck because it will do everything I need it to well enough. But the Prius can't tow for me, it can't have an elk thrown in the back, it is not as capable in snow and ice. The only things the Prius can do that my truck can't is park close to the front of a busy store and pass a gas station.

 

Hummer has been gone for nearly 7 years, you need a new brand to hate on.