Consumer Reports annual car owner satisfaction survey

The PIP is just fine for our commute. At the time of release in 2012, the Volt was the only other EV Hybrid at the time, wasn't it? With all the Monday morning quarterbacking that has been going on lately shouldn't we be happy with what we have? Did Toyota not inform us of the 11-15 mile EV range. I beleive they did. There are several EV vehicles out now that may suit your needs better. Some did choose a different vehicle. Technology keeps getting better, just enjoy the fact we are not spending as much on gasoline as we used to. I don't know the future but my hope is that our PIP's last 10 years and up to 300,000 miles. Let's see what happens and make a informed decision then. Enjoy for now. I am looking into the Elio as a extra vehicle, not bad for $6800.

 

That's a good point F8L. The 1st gen Prius also used the 1NZ-FXE. So the engine GM's using in the Volt isn't just worse than the engine used in the 2nd gen Prius, it's also worse than the same engine in the 1st gen.

Like you said, they wanted to bring it to market, but they should have really retained/extended everything they did in the PNGV program so they wouldn't have to dump a heavy 4 cylinder with poor FE into the Volt. If Toyota was making an engine in 1997 that's better, then GM's really slacking here.

Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In terms of the cost, a PiP+I-MiEV is ~$10k more off the bat compared to 1 Volt, but ~$5k+ of that is made up in gas/electricity savings over ~300k miles combined (assuming 50/50 ev/gas). In my case, it's my wife and I, so it would be realistic to compare a PiP/i to something like 2 Volts, in which case there would be increased gas/electricity charges and the 2nd Volt would cost ~$10k more than the i.

 

The Volt engine is not turbocharged.

Using your metric the Volt was closer to the Gen I Prius because it was rated lower for EPA mileage than the GenII.

Also make sure you account for the total cost of the iMiEV plus insurance. The Volt is roughly the same price as the PIP base or less depending on what dealer you get the cars from. Depreciation is more difficult to figure out of course and if you don't qualify for the tax incentives then the numbers get even more messy.

 

Ah, that's why the output is kinda low. I'm using the out the door prices I've seen with incentives. The PiP and Volt are both ~$20k+TTL after tax credits/rebates and the i-MiEV is ~$10k. Insurance for all of them is going to be about the same, +/-$20-$50/year (Volt's likely the most expensive) since my wife and I have good records and have been driving for ~20 years.

In any event, GM made some compromises rushing the Volt, and given the headstart they had from PNGV, really shouldn't have been in that position in the first place.

 

I owned a 2012 Prius, and drove it 60,000 miles in a little more than two years...I loved that car.

However, I wanted a green sticker so I traded it in for a PIP. Not too excited about electric mode, heck I am at 17% EV with 12000 miles on it now even after charging at least twice a day, but I do love my green sticker...

Come on guys, admit it,,,Toyota is falling behind in Electric car mode...they better fix it with the redesign next year or they are going to be in trouble...

 

can't admit what isn't true, who would you say makes a better phev than toyota, and how would you define it?

 

It's certainly true that GM used an existing Otto cycle engine used in their existing small European cars. Doing this reduced the engineering risk of creating a new engine or significantly modifying an existing engine to switch it from Otto cycle to the more efficient pseudo-Atkinson cycle used by the Prius and most hybrid cars. It was a reasonable choice given their need to focus on the battery, charging and inverter electronics, motors, and the overall new transmission design.

The 2001 gen 1 Prius had an EPA estimate of 41 mpg highway and 42 mpg city using the modern (post-2008) EPA adjustments. The existing Volt has an EPA estimate of 40 mpg highway and 35 mpg city. The Volt is a bit larger and has a large Lithium battery so it's about 1,000 pounds heavier (around 2,750 vs 3,750).

Given that the Volt is Otto cycle and much heavier I don't think you can say that the engine itself (aside from its valve timing) is generally less efficient than the Toyota engine since the highway EPA estimate for the Volt is only 1 mpg lower. The city mpg estimate of the Volt is 5 mpg lower but that is explained by the Volt's heavier weight (more burden on stop and go situations) and by the Volt's transmission which uses more of the less efficient series mode for low-speed vehicle launch.

The new 2016 Volt transmission design may do a better job in city traffic situations to bring the Volt's city and highway estimates closer together like most full hybrids.

 

Expectations for the plug-in were all over the place. There was a major greenwashing effort underway in the early days too, taking advantage of people's lack of understanding of what batteries can and cannot deliver.

Combine with the assumptions people are now making about what the next may or may not deliver, how could anyone get an accurate depiction of what future purchase choices may be?

Heck, just price alone has a major influence... and we have no idea what it will be.

 

Actually, given the information provided by GM and what we know about the gen I Volt, I think we have a pretty good idea of what the future holds for the Volt 2.0. More so than what we know for the Gen IV Prius or GenII PIP. I'm more curious about the GenII Leaf. It sells pretty well despite its appearance and range anxiety.

 

I love my PiP, but it's a transitional technology. It's a toe in the water of plug-in. In 2012, all-EV was risky, and there wasn't much infrastructure. Things are changing a lot. I would buy another PiP if it had a much greater EV range. For me, I still can't go 100% EV.

But I totally love my PiP. The mileage I get is incredible.

 

Just for the record, the Volt was shown as a concept car in January 2007 and approved for production by the fall of 2007.

On November 11, 2007 Bob Lutz announced that Volt production would begin in November 2010 (and it did).

Lutz: Chevy Volt Production to Begin November 2010

Nissan didn't disclose the existence of the LEAF until August 2, 2009.

NISSAN | NISSAN UNVEILS "LEAF" - THE WORLD'S FIRST ELECTRIC CAR DESIGNED FOR AFFORDABILITY AND REAL-WORLD REQUIREMENTS

Sure, the Volt had a lot of new parts and technology and I'm sure GM was scrambling to keep on schedule but I doubt that the LEAFs existence influenced the choice of the engine.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Volt was built on an existing frame and suspension platform that may have limited the size of the engine that could be squeezed in. Running an Atkinson cycle lowers the power output but improves the efficiency. The 1.4L engine is already a pretty tight fit under the hood.

The Volt's 1.4L engine is not overpowered as it is although they limit the RPMs for noise and vibration reasons (the same engine is rated for higher HP in Europe at up to about 6000 RPM vs. the Volt's 4,800 or so RPM). To keep the same 84HP output with an Atkinsonized engine they would have needed to move to a 1.6L or so engine and they might not have had room for it.

 

I think you have to look at it this way.
Nearly 70% of what by definition must be first time buyers of the PiP WOULD buy it again.

I think those are actually very good numbers.

As has been stated, I think expectations for what the PiP is/should be- vary from individual to individual.

If I had a garage and a place where I could routinely recharge, I think I'd be very happy with the PiP.

But I wouldn't be comparing it to a Tesla, or Volt. As Toyota has tried to emphasize in some recent advertising the PiP is a plug in PRIUS.
I think some people were expecting it to be MORE than that. It's not. It has the advantages associated with being able to charge it's battery independently away from a self contained HSD system. This improves it's potential overall gas mileage and electric usage.

But if you wanted or were expecting more of a Tesla or Volt experience? It's NOT that vehicle.

For a first time vehicle, more akin to a satellite member of the Prius family, in limited regional release, I think 69% of owners stating they WOULD buy the vehicle again, is actually pretty good.

 

Tell me when you decide to sell your PIP....Used Volts are REALLY cheap and getting CHEAPER as three-year-leases come up, and folks buy new Volts or Bolts or Teslas..Leafs are even cheaper or the same reason, with a real glut on the market, and unbelievably low prices, with 3-year lease glut starting sooner..As more Prius Primes become available, I expect PIP's to be traded in, making them cheaper too...So don't wait too long to trade for a Volt...

 

Used Volts are really cheap now and getting cheaper because many are coming off 3-year-leases...So if you decide to sell your PIP, let me know...

 

Any idea why you posted to a thread over 2 years dead?

 

he was going to sell some day, and it's almost impossible to find a used PIP Advanced on the east Coast. hardly any for sale labelled "Advanced" ARE...luckily a few labeled "base" or not labeled ARE Advanced, at a great price from clueless Toyota dealerships...

 

Chevy Volt, eBay completed sales:

• $19.9k - 2015 - 09.2k mi
• $15.0k - 2014 - 44.8k mi
• $14.7k - 2013 - 22.0k mi
• $13.9k - 2013 - 28.4k mi
• $13.0k - 2015 - 25.5k mi
• $12.6k - 2013 - 22.8k mi
• $12.5k - 2013 - 22.5k mi
• $12.5k - 2015 - 25.6k mi
• $12.0k - 2013 - 48.6k mi
• $10.9k - 2013 - 67.3k mi
• $10.6k - 2013 - 32.0k mi
• $10.5k - 2012 - 58.5k mi
• $10.1k - 2013 - 48.6k mi
• $09.5k - 2012 - 63.0k mi
• $08.8k - 2013 - 73.0k mi
• . . .

The second and third, used Volt sold was half the price of the used BMW i3-REx or the new Prius Prime. Both the Bimmer and Prime came with dynamic cruise control, collision avoidance, and I'm not looking back. This posting is to give folks an idea about used, Volt prices.

Bob Wilson

 

some great deals out there, if you're not too fussy.