water fuel

If you want to see *all* the scams and urban legends in one place,
go to pureenergysystems.com and poke around for a while.
.
_H*

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Jun 19 2006, 05:05 PM) [snapback]273690[/snapback]</div>

Ah... well there's honor in that!

It still amazes me that these "energy from nothing" stories get as much press as they do. Is there any integrity in the press any longer?

 

I haven't completely lost faith in the idea of using hydrogen as a fuel source. But as you fellas are probably already aware of the only hope in doing that is by getting the hydrogen from algae and making the PEM's from much cheaper less complex material. The goal is to get hydrogen so that its out there ready to collect and store, without doing any work for it, the same way we get oil. Anyway else and you can forget about it.
I definitely encourage and respect people who have their hearts in these ideas and have good intentions.

 

joy, you were just naive. No sweat. The only difference between you and me on this score is that my brain got scammed by some phony scheme for running an engine on water when I was about 14, reading an article in "Popular Science". Within 24 hours I excitedly repeated this "revolutionary development" to others, most of whom promptly informed me I was crazy and/or gullible. Guilty as charged. Live and learn. Next.

Lessee, have there been any other things in my life I've been naive about, even as a relatively well-read adult?

things people will do for money and/or fame (prostitution, paid assasins, The Flying Wallendas and people appearing on Jerry Springer come to mind---got your favorites?)

female anatomy

how big "a billion" really is

the things people will lie about

the power of human will

George Bush getting elected in 2004

You catch my drift.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ghostofjk @ Jun 19 2006, 11:30 PM) [snapback]273945[/snapback]</div>

You forgot the best and my favorite "Truthout's" report of the indictment of Karl Rove! :lol:



EXTRA! EXTRA! naterprius tries to "spin" his previous remarks . . .
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ Jun 19 2006, 10:53 AM) [snapback]273500[/snapback]</div>

As he boots his 3 y.o. child into the deep end to encourage it to swim,

and screams "stupidity" epitaphs at his teenager to encourage her to get better grades. <_<

Why not just tell her it's all Bush's fault I gave you the segway. Geeez not an ounce of gratitude from the left.


Wildkow

 

so you think you got scammed... huh? How bout losing 12K to a wind energy scam publicly traded on the NYSE?
How bout those apples? http://www.uswindfarming.com

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(zaptschaft @ Jun 20 2006, 02:19 PM) [snapback]274161[/snapback]</div>

Not much of website. What is the scoop ?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Jun 20 2006, 01:25 AM) [snapback]273982[/snapback]</div>

Check latest update on that thread. It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.

 

here you go, WARNING THIS STUFF IS REALLY SICK:

http://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/lr19311.htm

 

Ya know, maybe this guy gets his water from lake Erie off the Cleveland shoreline.... I know that at one time it would burn really well......

A Bengal fan.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jun 20 2006, 12:13 AM) [snapback]273915[/snapback]</div>

Well I doubt press people understand the theories of physicis. That's why they are in the field of bs.

 

What is happening is they are using a “Joe Cellâ€. This has the potential to revolutionize the world that we know. I believe you need to read:

http://www.thejoecell.com/

The Joe Cell is essentially a supercapacitor. It's similar in many ways to an old-fashioned Leyden jar. It has the ability to absorb and hold a charge. Unlike a normal capacitor however, it does not release that charge. It simply accumulates charge. In essence, it is an electron accumulator. The water inside the cell behaves exactly like moisture stored in a cloud right before a thunderstorm. Rather than creating a conductive path, a static charge is induced, establishing opposing electric fields at the cathode and anode. Positive ions form at the negative electrode and negative ions form at the positive electrode. The strength and intensity of the electric field is directly related to the amount of charge build-up in the cell that electrons are known to travel. When a relatively small charge imbalance is initially induced, a positive feedback loop begins and progressively more and more electrons are pulled through the water and off surrounding molecules toward the electric field of the anode. The opposing charges continue to build and build. For testing purposes, the charge imbalance can be measured through the PH of the water in the outer region of the cell - a successfully charged cell having a PH greater than 7.

While it may be hard for some to comprehend, what Joe and Peter had actually
discovered was a way to power a car on lightning. Exactly the same powerful energy force you see exhibited by nature during a thunderstorm. The Joe Cell does not defy any laws of physics. It simply harnesses them with great efficiency.

Some observations about this technology:

A. Just like a battery, each Joe Cell will have a limit to the number of electrons it can hold. As the cell approaches this maximum, two things are likely to occur. Either the performance of the vehicle will gradually diminish or the charge will become so strong that a spark will cross the gap and short the cell. What this means is that cells have to be regularly discharged. Ultimately, the most effective way to reliably run a vehicle on Joe Cell technology may be to have two or more cells fitted for the purposes of redundancy. Who knows, in the future we may have measurement devices and switching equipment that could automate the discharge process and switch between each cell. It goes without saying that if you installed two cells, you should always ensure that at least one was charged. It would make sense to mount then on opposite sides of the engine bay, to reduce them interfering with each other’s magnetic field. (I believe that all Joe Cell cars are currently hybrids so you should be able to just swap over to the other, more expensive fuel.)

B. For the cell to work correctly the water has to be completely polar, absolutely pure H2O. The presence of any minerals such as sodium, potassium, magnesium or silica will reduce the waters ability to create a charge imbalance. There has been plenty of talk about types of water that can be used in the Joe Cell. I am firmly of the opinion that the water needs to be free of pollutants and trace elements. That includes electrolytes. The best way to produce this water is by setting up a conditioning cell to prepare your water by removing impurities. A conditioning cell is the same as a Joe Cell except it separate from the vehicle.

C. Because the Joe Cell is creating a cloud like condition on the ground, it makes sense that it could influence weather conditions. It also suggests that changing weather conditions may affect the performance of a Joe Cell powered vehicle. If there is a naturally high number of negatively charged particles already in the atmosphere, the cell may not work properly, resulting in a fall in compression and a loss of engine power.

D. In early experiments, Joe's Mark 2 Cell operated with stainless steel plates as anode and cathode. The cell didn’t work very well. What this means is that the concentric cylinder design is probably more effective because the neutral rings create a physical separation of the two charges within the cell. If this is the case, the cell design may be able to be improved through innovations that help to maintain a physical separation of charge.

E. The choice of spacers between the cell tubes is of vital importance to cell performance. There are many substances that will insulate an electric charge, however there are very few that will not carry a static charge. Nylon is an example. It will insulate but it’s also great for carrying static. The very best spacer material will be completely inert, non-conductive and anti-static.

F. The Joe Cell can store charge even when disconnected from its charging circuit, however, it is more likely to hold a charge when a small battery is permanently connected at the negative cathode only. This will keep the water polarized, and prevent the cell shorting itself.

G. Electrons can travel easily. As a charge builds within the cell, a spark will try to cross the gap from the engine and short the cell. This is the reason a rubber tube must be used to separate the carby from the cell. This should be a minimum of 13 cm in length but can be longer.

H. Joe Cells require Austentic stainless steel in their design. Austentic stainless steels are non-magnetic. Even slight magnetism affects the charge holding capacity of the cell. When nickel is added to stainless steel in sufficient amounts the crystal structure changes to "austentite". The basic composition of Austentic stainless steels is 18% chromium and 8% nickel. This enhances their corrosion resistance and modifies the structure from ferritic to Austentic. Austentic grades are the most commonly used stainless steels accounting for more than 70% of production (type 304 is the most commonly specified grade by far). They are not hardenable by heat treatment. Super Austentic grades have enhanced pitting and crevice corrosion resistance compared with the ordinary Austentic or duplex types. This is due to the further additions of chromium, molybdenum and nitrogen to these grades. Stainless steels with an L on the end of their grade, have a low carbon content. These are the preferred grades. i.e. 316L. 904L grade stainless is a super Austentic grade with less than 50% iron content. It also usually contains about 23% Chromium, 23 % Nickel and, 4-5% Molybdenum. It is designed for use in highly corrosive environments and it is the least magnetic of all stainless steels. 904L is likely to be the most effective stainless choice for use in Joe Cell manufacture. It is however the most expensive. Mass production will eventually bring the costs down significantly. Seamless tubing is also the preferred option as wields can induce magnetism. There is also another high quality stainless steel known as 6% Molybdenum. It is very similar to 904L but as the name suggests, it has a higher olybdenum content which makes it less corrosive.

I. The use of high performance spark plugs, distributor and coil may significantly improve the
performance of a Joe Cell powered engine.

J. The charge state within the cells can be affected by electromagnetic interference from other electrical devices and power sources. This interference can be minimized by using insulating material to prevent shorting. Wrapping the Cell in Burlap (Hessian) and placing it in a plastic bucket, held in place with blocks of wood is recommended.

K. Joe Cells are very easy to short, particularly by touching them. This is possibly the major reason experimenters cannot get their cells to work. Every time they touch them, you act as an earth and short the cell. Once a cell is installed in a vehicle and charged it should not be touched. Particularly if any part of your body is also touching any other part of the vehicle or ground. Use rubber gloves to prevent accidental discharge.

L. Any movement or vibration in the cell will increase the chances of shorting. This is likely to be another main reason cells die unexpectedly.

(M. This reaction is self containing and the + electrode can be disconnected after awhilebut the reactions will keep going.) from a different article.

Space charge engine technology has the potential to change our understanding of energy. Like any early stage technology, it is likely to has it problems. Joe Cells are reportedly difficult to build correctly and are as unreliable as hell - prone to dying for no apparent reason. But as we focus more and more on the science, these problems are likely to be overcome. Space charge engine technology be turn out to be one of the most important discoveries of the past 100 years.

Some other good reading:

http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Bill_W...s'_Joe_Cell
http://pureenergysystems.com/
http://pesn.com/2006/04/16/9600261_Joe_Cell_instructions/

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This is my first post on this awesome web site. This is a very extensive site. I've been lurking for the last three weeks just learning about this neat car before I get my own Prius. I hope it won't be as long as Danny. After driving one at a dealer, I'm sold on it. It will probably be at least a year because of my financial situation. I'm hoping the plug in Priuses are out then. If not, I might have to wait 6 months before they're out. Until then, I might work on getting a working "Joe Cell" vehicle. That looks like a good project.