1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Who installs 120 plug to Hybrid battery?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Accessories and Modifications' started by Florida, May 9, 2017.

  1. Florida

    Florida Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2017
    24
    2
    0
    Location:
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    I am new and just posted this in the main forum. After discovering this modifications/accessory section, I thought it would be better to re post it here:

    Who installs a 120 alternating current female plug to the hybrid battery so I can run an 800 watt Vitamix blender for 10 minutes a day? Preferably Florida but anywhere in my travel route between Florida and Montreal.
    Hobbit interested?
    Thanks.
    White solar moonroof 2010 Prius 47,000 miles
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,861
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    welcome!

    i think you can do that with a 1,000 watt inverter off of the 12 volt battery.
    does it pull more than 800 upon start up?
    there are many threads here with pictures, diagrams and instructions.
    if you need more than 1000 watts, tapping into the hybrid battery is expensive and difficult, but there is a company that makes larger inverters for that purpose.
    all the best!(y)
     
  3. Florida

    Florida Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2017
    24
    2
    0
    Location:
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Thanks for your reply. My understanding is that the 12volt battery would be drained almost immediately and certainly in less than 2 minutes.
    I hear about people doing it quite often. The salvage Prius guy up north used to do it but only for Gen 1 and 2. Many people do it so they can use it as a portable generator(without the noise or frequent gas filling and oil changes of generators) to run part of their house when power fails. And I am not the first Prius owner to do this for powering a blender or induction stove. It is not expensive. I just need to know who and where someone is currently offering this service.
    I believe it would be attached to the READY terminal of the battery so the main battery would automatically charge as soon as the power was too low.

    By the way, why would you need more than a 1000 watt inverter if you only wanted 1000 watts from the main hybrid battery?
     
  4. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    5,596
    3,770
    0
    Location:
    So. Texas
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    You leave the car on in Ready mode so it won't drain the 12v battery. The inverter runs off the 12v not the high voltage (HV) battery which would fry you appliance. With the car on, the HV battery supplies the 12v with all the voltage it requires.
     
    irishgypsy likes this.
  5. Florida

    Florida Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2017
    24
    2
    0
    Location:
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Thank you for your reply.
    I have already experienced that if I leave the car in ready mode, I can leave the Air conditioner(which runs directly off the big hybrid battery) on and it will run with the engine not running until the power of the hybrid battery goes low enough to turn the engine on to recharge the big main hybrid battery.

    You suggest attaching a 1000 watt inverter directly to the small starting battery. I do already know that the large main hybrid battery constantly recharges the small starting battery. What I am in doubt about is how fast the big main hybrid battery recharges the small 12 volt starting battery. Of course I have no doubt that the large main hybrid battery will recharge the small 12 volt battery fairly quickly. I am just in doubt of whether it would recharge/maintain the charge without interrrupting the powerful 800 watt draw of a high powered Vitamix blender for 10 minutes. Yes, I can see that if the Vitamix drained the 12 volt battery that the main large hybrid battery would quickly charge the small 12 volt battery back up again. But would the big main hybrid battery maintain the charge without interrption if an 800 watt draw is on it for 10 minutes?

    Have you run an 800 watt appliance for 10 minutes off of the 12 volt battery? There is a big difference between the usual 250 watt or 400 watt draw of smaller appliances.

    Thanks for your thoughtful consideration.
     
  6. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    5,596
    3,770
    0
    Location:
    So. Texas
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    The car doesn't wait for the 12v to get low before recharging it, it monitors and maintains a constant (usually) 14+ volts to the 12v battery anytime the car is on. Folks have determined that the 1000w dc to ac inverters are the max size the system can keep up with without exceeding capacity and blowing fuses.

    My energi has an 120v receptacle built-in that's limited to 150 watts which is good for recharging a laptop or the like. If I wanted more power, I'd need to go the inverter route too.
     
    #6 fotomoto, May 9, 2017
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
  7. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    2,036
    1,020
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    But that is not unlimited.
    His requirements of 800 watts requires 66 amps at 12 volts. This likely exceeds the capacity of the 12 v charging system......and certainly exceeds the capacity of the onboard 12 V outlets.

    P.S. What are you doing that you need to run the blender THAT long ???
    Maybe what you are thinking of really is a high current 12 V outlet to run the 800-1000 watt converter.
     
  8. Florida

    Florida Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2017
    24
    2
    0
    Location:
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    120 volts
    50/60 Hz
    12 amps
    Surges up to 1440 watts
    Above are the vitamix specs
    The vitamix company said that the inverters that they tested did not hold up very long unless they were 3000 watt inverters. That means it actually surges up past 1440 OR the internal components of a 3000 watt converter are simply higher quality then a 2000 watt inverter and has nothing to do with surfing past the recorded high of 1440 watts??

    5 minutes with a a vitamix blender is enough to make hot soups or hot grain cereal. If it was just crushing ice or a quick fruit smooths it would only be 30 seconds.

    Even if I was to use it for 3 minutes, I would still be using at a different time, a mini induction cooker(Walmart) that is rated at 800 watts but probably surges past that.

    So it looks like the needs are closer to 1800 to 2000 watts to buffer for surges.

    I already know the vitamix draws too much from a regular car battery because the the recharge depends on the alternator capacity.

    It sounds too good to be true to be able to simply hook up to the Prius starter battery with a 2 to 3 thousand inverter. Were the earlier posters saying g it was possible because the recharging of the starter battery is continuous and instant, unlike the old fashioned belt driven alternator output?
     
  9. drysider

    drysider Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    823
    332
    1
    Location:
    Liberty Lake WA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    There are many threads going back several years on this topic. The limiting factor is the 100 amp, 12 volt fuse in the line. That limits the 12 volt inverter to 1000 watts or less. Do a search- there is a ton of good info. Also search for HV inverters- also a lot of info. These guys are good!
     
  10. Florida

    Florida Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2017
    24
    2
    0
    Location:
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    So it looks like I am back to my original question:
    Who, between Florida and Montreal will install the correct (3000? Watt) inverter to the large hybrid battery probably to the 2 READY terminals because that would insure the engine would turn on when the large battery got too low (although I would make a practice of having it turned on in ready mode at the same time I am blending or cooking,
    It should be someone that knows the correct fail-safe needs like fusable links that a knowledgeable electrician would know to do----to protect the enormous power of the hybrid battery from passing through a defective inverter into the appliance or the person plugging it in.
    I do not want to do it myself because I don't trust myself to do it right even with great diagrams and directions.
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,861
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    unfortunately, no one. this is not something that prius people do, for whatever reason. as i said, there is a company that makes kits, but i don't think they install them.

    check out 'plug out kits' by ConVerdant. they are in new england, and may be able to install.
     
  12. Florida

    Florida Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2017
    24
    2
    0
    Location:
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Thanks everyone for your thoughtful replies. Sorry for misleading people in the beginning. You were all correct that 800 watts without additional surge would have done fine in the starter battery with a 1000 watt inverter. That was good advice.
    Right after I asked the question, I callled Vitamix for more precise data that revealed the bad news that the surge goes WAY beyond that.
    I was not able to copy paste it but you might enjoy googling this site I just found from Van Dwellers:

    "No, you *CANNOT* run your 1800 Watt (hair dryer, blender, microwave, A/C) off a car battery. Here’s why:"

    I will call Converdent about their plug out kits.

    Also, if any one reading this can install an inverter to the hybrid battery or you know someone who does, please let me know.
    Does Hobbit have a contact email? I heard he is in Virginia?

    Thanks
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,861
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    hobbit hasn't been around in a long time.
     
  14. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,064
    14,969
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV


    ConVerdant is the name of a company that sells inverters that can be connected to the Prius high-voltage system. You can't use any old inverter for the purpose, because most made for cars are built for a 12-volt input, not 200-plus.

    ConVerdant sells inverters that are suitable, and can provide all of the information that your qualified electrician with proper protective equipment will need to do the installation for you.

    Some of the company's products, and probably a link to their web site, can be found in the PriusChat Shop.

    -Chap

    p.s. just in the interest of keeping things quantitative:

    The stock Gen 3 Prius battery capacity is 45 amp-hours, or (at 12 volts nominal) 45 ✕ 12 = 540 watt-hours. For an 800 watt load to drain it completely would take about 40 minutes (no other significant loads present). Of course you'd never do that, you'd just keep the car READY, but that's how the capacity works out.
     
    #14 ChapmanF, May 9, 2017
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
    fotomoto likes this.
  15. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2004
    4,365
    3,209
    1
    Location:
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    This is a service I provide at my shop, unfortunately I'm over in Madison, Wisconsin.

    If you find a place to do it, or do it yourself, do an could you please report back here to share the results with others? The community would really appreciate it.

    I should mention that the ConVerdant products are not cheap.
    On their site the 3kva system is $1,300 just for parts. Labor to install is additional.
     
    #15 ericbecky, May 10, 2017
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  16. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    2,036
    1,020
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    The recharging is no more continuous OR instant than a conventional charging system. It might be a slightly higher capacity though.

    While your load might not be high enough to do this, it is possible to blow out the charging system by putting too high a load on the 12 V system. That would be an EXPENSIVE mistake.
     
  17. bobzchemist

    bobzchemist Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2016
    507
    342
    0
    Location:
    Kennesaw, Georgia, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
  18. bobzchemist

    bobzchemist Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2016
    507
    342
    0
    Location:
    Kennesaw, Georgia, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
  19. drysider

    drysider Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    823
    332
    1
    Location:
    Liberty Lake WA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    There are a lot of really cheap 3kw inverters. A good one will cost $1000+. I have two Trace 4kw, 24vdc/110vac inverters and they were in the $2500 each range (back when Trace made quality stuff). I know nothing about ConVerdant beyond their website. They appear to supply a dongle to adapt the existing HV battery plug to be compatible with their inverter. A call to the factory should make things a lot clearer.
     
  20. garglo

    garglo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2007
    99
    45
    0
    Location:
    Port St Lucie, FL
    Vehicle:
    2020 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    If you are near Port Saint Lucie, FL I have a 2500w sine wave inverter on my 08. We could plugin your blender and see if it works. I have used more than 800w with no problems.
     
    SFO and Merkey like this.