New York Times Part 2

In response to you above post, for your edification:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jun 28 2006, 01:16 PM) [snapback]278109[/snapback]</div>

No

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jun 28 2006, 01:16 PM) [snapback]278109[/snapback]</div>

Maybe, but you really need to try thinking clearly. How about if George Bush did any of those things before 9/11? Maybe no 9/11? He did none of those things and there was no indication that he was going to until after 9/11 happened. Therefore, whatever your point is, it applies equally to Clinton and Bush.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jun 28 2006, 01:16 PM) [snapback]278109[/snapback]</div>

No, I didn't say that

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jun 28 2006, 01:16 PM) [snapback]278109[/snapback]</div>

I did not and have never said anything to give you the idea I would respond as you imply, or that I think our nation should respond as you imply. However, to extend your analogy, I would NOT punch the person standing next to the person who punched me. I would not feel that simply blindly "striking back" would be a rational or useful reponse. As I have said on many different posts, and never get a good answer to:
Saddam Hussein is not an islamic extremeist and he is/was not religiously motivated. Doesn't make him a good guy, but it also doesn't make him the target to strike back at.

When you blindly strike back at the wrong target, what you get is an excalation of violence that is counter productive. You also get the kind of bickering and division that we otherwise good Americans are caught up in here. And it all starts an rests with the ill advised decsion to strike back at the wrong target for the wrong reasons. That was the mistake, and everything else we argue about here are merely symptoms of that mistake.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jun 28 2006, 01:16 PM) [snapback]278109[/snapback]</div>

I don't believe you (because the only other option I have is that you are complete fool, and I give you the benefit of the doubt on that one). I suppose you were really supportive of Clinton in 1999 when he has "pretected us from being hit" for 6 whole years.

But to reiterate my initial point, there are only two terrorist attack (on US soil) data points in 13 years. They are simply statistically meaningless. They don't support your position and they don't support mine. They support nothing. You cannot draw a conclusion about our realtive safety from them, and if you do, you are a fool.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jun 28 2006, 01:16 PM) [snapback]278109[/snapback]</div>

I never said anything about averaging out attacks. I was talking about the statistical significance of the attack "database", which is nil.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jun 28 2006, 01:16 PM) [snapback]278109[/snapback]</div>

No and I never said anything like that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jun 28 2006, 01:16 PM) [snapback]278109[/snapback]</div>

I'm completely awake, are you?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jun 28 2006, 04:05 PM) [snapback]278189[/snapback]</div>

I'm all for keeping it civil, but this is a waste of time. You consistently fail to read what I wrote. I never in any way implied that I wouldn't defend myself if punched in the face, and you walk away with the conclusion that I wouldn't.

I cannot have meaningful discourse with you because you don't read what I have to say, and you put all manner of words in my mouth.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kingofgix @ Jun 28 2006, 12:47 PM) [snapback]278093[/snapback]</div>

Two attacks in thirteen years?? -The following is taken from a speech given by Navy Captain Oimette:

That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 (When more than 3,000 Americans were killed -AD) and maybe it was, but I think it should have been "Get Out of Bed!" In fact, I think the alarm clock has been buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button and roll over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then.

It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an outright attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's most powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on this sovereign U. S. embassy set the stage for events to follow for the next 25 years.

America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Vietnam experience and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President Carter, had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert. The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol of America's inability to deal with terrorism.

America's military had been decimated and down sized/right sized since the end of the Vietnam War. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start.

Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to protect her citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil continued.

In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven into the US Embassy compound in Beirut When it explodes, it kills 63 people. The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once more.

Then just six short months later in 1983 a large truck heavily laden down with over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine Corps headquarters in Beirut and 241 US servicemen are killed. America mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more.

Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America continues her slumber.

The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the gate of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.

Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid.

Then in August 1985 a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 are killed and the snooze alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US interests are continually attacked.

Fifty-nine days later in 1985 a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the passenger list and executed.

The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners when they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 that killed 4 and the most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in1988, killing 259.

Clinton treated these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are still trying to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war.

The wake up alarm is getting louder and louder.

The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America. In January 1993, two CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.

The following month, February 1993, a group of terrorists are arrested after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people are killed and over 1000 are injured. Still this is a crime and not an act of war? The Snooze alarm is depressed again.

Then in November 1995 a car bomb explodes at a US military complex in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women.

A few months later in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35 yards from the US military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. It destroys the Khobar Towers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over 500. The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that America does not respond decisively.

They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.. These attacks were planned with precision. They kill 224. America responds with cruise missile attacks and goes back to sleep.

The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12 October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war, but we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.

And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001. Most Americans think this was the first attack against US soil or in America. How wrong they are. America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose to hit the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep.

In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from every high officials in government over what they knew and what they didn't know. But if you've read the papers and paid a little attention I think you can see exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the National Security Council to see the pattern that has been developing since 1979.

I think we have been in a war for the past 25 years and it will continue until we as a people decide enough is enough. America needs to "Get out of Bed" and act decisively now. America has been changed forever.. We have to be ready to pay the price and make the sacrifice to ensure our way of life continues. We cannot afford to keep hitting the snooze button again and again and roll over and go back to sleep.

My comment - Maybe this will refresh your memory.

 

i skimmed this thread...

... all i have to say is, once again, i get to use this line: Afghanistan wasn't a threat either on 9/10, so the question is, would you have punched the metaphorical Afghanistan FIRST in the face if you got the feeling they were about to do something? no "proof" was needed for Iraq (that, aside from the fact the libs likely wouldn't take anything as "imminent proof" until the bomb goes off...), we got the feeling they were going to do something next and they got hit.

...and GOOD.

Too bad we stopped there... Looks like we're going to let other threats fester due to the irrational restraint of the liberal influence in this country, which, IMO, is far worse than any terrorist threat...

...man, if we could only go back in time, and keep the current political environment in tact, we'd never have dropped the bomb on Japan, can you imagine all the liberals screaming about atomizing all those innocent people???? ...and to think it was done under a Democrat in office... my how times have changed for the worse...