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Fight with Monro Muffler or just learn a $200 lesson?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Cdgreg, Jun 10, 2017.

  1. Cdgreg

    Cdgreg Member

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    I'll try to keep a long story short: NY car. Last October with 168,600 on our 2007 Prius Toyota said we needed new front pads and rotors for the first time in the history of the car. Toyota quoted $350, I pitted a few chain companies in the community against each other and ultimately Monro Muffler replaced the front pads and rotors for $196 total with quite a bit of haggling and pushing the Monro manager to work with corporate.

    It's now June and I have 181,000 on the car and I have been hearing a clicking / creaking sound from the front of the car when braking at low speeds (under 8 MPH). I went back to Monro and they did a free brake check and said everything looks good physically, must be a hybrid thing.

    I went to the Toyota Dealership this morning for them to diagnose the clicking/creaking while braking and they called me and said "Front pads and rotors need to be replaced." I informed them they were replaced in October so please give me more specifics. They said "The pads are loose, missing way too much material for Oct-June/14,000 miles and wearing very unevenly especially on one of the ears." Their only retort on condition of the rotors were "they looked rusty." They also said the front struts are leaking, but that is nothing I really need to worry about now.

    I went back to Monro shared the documentation and talked with the same manager who said everything was physically fine before. I asked him why these would be wearing so quickly as my OEM pads and rotors lasted 10 years, 167k miles. He said "Oh, you'll never get anything like that with aftermarket parts, you'll be lucky to get 30k out of these." But since both the pads and rotors are within the 1 year parts and labor warranty (and life time replacement on the pads), I scheduled a more in-depth inspection through Monro Muffler for next Saturday.

    So, my questions:
    1. Do cheap aftermarket chain brake pads and rotors wear incredibly fast even on a Prius? In terms of 30k for pads?
    2. What are the odds there are faulty pads/rotor involved here as compared to just cheap parts?
    3. What are the odds Monro will own it even if the hardware is faulty and replace everything under warranty?
    Overall, I am torn whether to fight this or consider it a $200 lesson and in the future either buy OEM parts and do the work myself, or pay the dealership if the work is beyond my learning/skills. I am also tempted to just buy some OEM pads and try to swap these unevenly worn ones out myself.
     
    #1 Cdgreg, Jun 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
  2. peecee

    peecee Member

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    If this is the lifetime replacement deal, I'd try to get Monro to replace the pads. If not, walk away and learn your lesson. Brake pad replacement is one of the easiest to do, maybe even easier than an oil change. Spend $200 and get OEM next time and do the job yourself. Plus, you get a good feeling from doing the work yourself.
     
    Cdgreg likes this.
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah I would just carry on. Get OEM pads from dealership parts department. Pads and shims are something like $100, in the 'States?

    Something like Permatex Anti-Seize compound is good, applied thinly between pad backs and shims, and caliper contact points. Lube the caliper pins too, Sil-Glyde brake lubricant is a product that'll work, or the parts dept may have the Toyota caliper pin grease.

    To push back the piston, say with a C-clamp, put an old pad or some plywood across the piston face: it may be plastic (gen 3 is, not sure about gen 2), might crack if you just apply point load.

    Disconnect negative battery cable at the outset, and when done pressurize the brake pedal multiple times before reconnecting.
     
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  4. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    I wouldn't be surprised they didn't do anything and just have you back your car. Charged you the total for work never done. Maybe you can see if it's oem Toyota parts on there?
     
    Cdgreg likes this.
  5. Cdgreg

    Cdgreg Member

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    Thanks for the feedback.

    Yes, this is one of those "lifetime pads" deals, I just edited that into the post. Good thinking, that could be an area they may be more flexible on replacing.

    That's an interesting thought and interesting enough for me to potentially jack the car up and yank a tire off to take some pics. I was able to see the pads through the rim and I see "D822CP 15/03/16" stamped on one of the pads. The rotors do look really really old....if I yank off the tire, is there something specific I should look for on the rotor itself to determine if it's a Toyota rotor?
     
  6. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    I think there would be some sort of part identification number stamped somewhere on the rotor, either on the outside or the inside. If you had them replaced in October, I'm not sure if 1 winter would make those look really old? I live in CA and our weather here is so mild that after 10 years, my rotors still look really good.
     
    Cdgreg likes this.
  7. Cdgreg

    Cdgreg Member

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    For anyone with a trained eye, do these rotors look like they are 9 months old and been through one NY winter? If there is suspicion I will yank a tire this week after work to do further digging.

    3 Pics: Passenger's Side Front
    PF.JPG PF1.JPG PF2.JPG


    3 pics: Driver's Side Front (sorry for the sun glare)
    DF.JPG DF1.JPG DF2.JPG
     
    #7 Cdgreg, Jun 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
  8. jm98

    jm98 Member

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    It's looking like Prius owners are forced to use OEM parts such as break pads, KYB Struts, coolant and other maintenance items. The 3rd party parts seems to have very low margins for re-sellers and Chinese parts foundries don't make it easy for quality situation.
     
  9. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Brakes are once in a lifetime for me to replace as they last more than 150k miles. I'll gladly spend for oem parts if I only have to replace once
     
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  10. eman08

    eman08 Active Member

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    Its always wise to document and take pictures before taking something to a shop. Then you will know if the job was actually done. I simply don't trust stealer ships these days as a lot of them are just parts throwers which is why I became my own Technician as a DIYer. For brake pads I recommend Akebono. They are made of very high quality materials and don't make noises. In fact Akebono brakes widely used by major OEM.
     
    #10 eman08, Jun 11, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
  11. Ajourney101

    Ajourney101 Member

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    My first rotor and pad change was at 183,000. Now I'm using the cheapest ebay rotors(drilled and slotted), I hated the brake dust that came from the eBay pads that came with the rotors, so I bought black ceramic pads from AutoZone and I'm very happy with how much cleaner my front wheels look. These items a have been on my vehicle well over 100,000 miles. I'm at 317,000 miles now.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  12. Cdgreg

    Cdgreg Member

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    For what it's worth I stopped by the autozone in our town that I occasionally buy fluids and whatnot from. The manager happened to be free, and without giving him the background I asked him to eyeball my rotors through the wheels and tell me if they looked 8 months or 8 years old. He said they definitely look newer as in through one winter. I then told him the story and he said he knows all of the shops in town and while Monro may be expensive at times, they do honest work. So, the good news is the pads and rotors were truly replaced in October. I am probably going to push Monro next Saturday to replace the pads under warranty. If they will not replace the pads under warranty or the clicking/creaking braking under 10MPH continues I will replace with OEM parts.

    Off to watch some youtube videos and read some threads to learn how to change the brake pads and rotors on a prius!
     
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  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah front disc brakes are straightforward. If you done them on other vehicles it's pretty much the same, just be mindful of the battery disconnect, and when you're done, do the brake pedal tromp before reconnecting battery. What you want to avoid:

    1. The piston popping out while the caliper's off the car, when the system decides to pressurize. Usually triggered by opening driver's door on 2nd gen too?

    2. The system detecting excess brake pedal travel when you're done.

    The caliper slide pins you pop out, clean, lube with Sil-Glyde or similar. When reinstalling clean and apply light amount of Sil-Glyde to the boots.

    Push the piston back in fully with C-clamp or similar, and again, put some sorta shim, plywood or whatever, so that you're putting pressure on the whole rim. Inspect the rubber boot around the piston, apply a light amount of Sil-Glyde into the folds, run it around with a slim blade screwdriver.

    The pads and shims: lay them out, then as you assemble each shim, put a thin coating of Anti-seize on the inside of the shim, then install. Also apply anti-seize (again very sparingly) to the caliper piston rim, and the caliper fingers (for want of a better word) where they contact the pad back.

    Goes without saying, clean everything as you go, as much as possible, before applying fresh lube. And keep greasy fingers of the rotor and the pad working surface.

    FWIW, the caliper mounting bolts (they screw into the caliper pins) are torque spec: 25 ft/lb.
     
    Cdgreg likes this.
  14. FireFighterHill

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    Those rotors look ALOT older than 9 months. I cant see all that pitting corrosion being possible after just 9 months. They look like the cars original rotors.
     
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  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    A couple of toys worth getting, for rotor inspection: a dial indicator (with magnetic base) and a micrometer (say 0-25 mm range). This attachment describes rotor check on 3rd gen, might be similar enough to be applicable on 2nd gen.

    Still: was there any issue with the rotors, the originals?? If they're above spec'd mininum thickness, not pulsing or anything, there's really no reason to replace them.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Cdgreg

    Cdgreg Member

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    For all of you waiting on the edge of your seat for the verdict today - there is no verdict! I brought the car back to Monro Muffler, they showed me the pads which are at 11/32nds and wearing appropriately. The rotors also have expected rust on them, but are not grooved or wearing unacceptably. So, at this point the clicking/creaking is still there under 8 MPH. I really do not think it's the pads/rotors because the noise really sounds like it's coming from the center of the car just past the pedals on the other side of the firewall. Considering the braking itself is fine, I am going to let it go for now, if it gets worse I'll go back to Toyota and have them look again. What I am most disappointed in is the fact that Toyota said the pads/rotors should be replaced when I really see no sign that they should be.
     
  17. TheMole

    TheMole Junior Member

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    Sounds like the aftermarket pad is not fitting correctly or the hardware bits underlined in the diagram below was not installed correctly. They are known to pop off when removing pads.

    118968071.gif
     
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  18. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    As well as checking that the No 1 & 2 Front Disc Brake Pad Support Plates are installed correctly in the calliper frame, they should have a light film of Toyota Brake Caliper Grease* (part # 08887-80609) applied, as well as a light film on the fingers of the brake pad that sits in them at the touch points.

    * Toyota Brake Caliper Grease is a grease that is white and has the consistency of thick toothpaste that tolerates high temperatures. The only information on the enclosed info sheet is that the grease contains silicone oil and PTFE. It is quite different in appearance from copper grease and the like.