Changing the PSD fluid?

Thanks guys.

It dawned on me that she's still under warranty so just to be safe I'm considering having the dealer do it next time in.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BrianG @ Jul 2 2006, 06:46 PM) [snapback]280283[/snapback]</div>

I should warn you it's a real bitch to get to the fill plug, as the bottom plastic pan is in the way. If you have the car up on a lift or up on ramps, then you can reach it. To prevent rounding off the fill plug, please use a 6 point socket.

Remember the drain plug is NOT a regular bolt but a hex head. I've used a Torx - I think it was a T-55 - as well. If you remove the bottom 24 mm bolt from the CVT, that is the coolant drain, not the oil drain.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon @ Jul 3 2006, 10:39 AM) [snapback]280515[/snapback]</div>

Me too, sometime this summer probably in August. I'll have around 45,000km on the oil since my last CVT oil change at 12,500km. I'll also send off a new sample for comparison, I had around 200ml left over in the other can

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Jul 3 2006, 08:14 PM) [snapback]280696[/snapback]</div>

This reminds me that it wasn't just the change in technology that stopped my DIYing. It was also the lack of specialized tools, like the 6mm hex socket I had to purchase to install my BT Stiffener. Remember when it was rare for a DIYers toolbox to contain metric wrenches or sockets? sigh....

 

i called the dealer and they had no idea what PSD fluid was and finally gave me a price on the differential and transaxle fluid change of $230. Can you guys suggest to me what a fair price for this PSD fluid change at the dealership should cost and do i need to do that differential fluid at all? thx

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(saechaka @ Jul 6 2006, 10:58 AM) [snapback]282034[/snapback]</div>

PSD - power split device, the planetary gears that are the heart of the Prius transaxle. The transaxle includes the differential so changing one does both.

The $230 price means not only the fluid, actually a transmission oil, but for an NHW11, 01-03 Prius, a gasket for the pan and 'o' ring for the oil take-up tube. As for being 'reasonable', that is hard to call. I do my own so my labor is 'free'. From memory, the materials should cost approximately:

$50 - 5 qts. of transmission fluid, 01-03 use Type T and the 04-current Prius use Type W
$1 - replacement washers for drain and fill plugs
$10 - transmission pan gasket (01-03 Prius)
$3 - "o" ring for oil pickup tube (01-03 Prius)
$?? - recycle of old oil

I would ask that it include a oil analysis:

$20 - basic oil test with 100 ( C) and 40 ( C) viscosity testing
$5 - shipping

IMHO, a fair price would be $150-180. So I'd see if they could provide a beakout and find out if there is any negotiation. You might find a dealer in a smaller city or rural area will do the same job for less.

One option is to get the materials yourself from the parts department and find a trustable, independent mechanic.

What city or area are you in? In Huntsville Alabama, they are reasonable and if I get out of the city limits, very reasonable.

GOOD LUCK!

Bob Wilson

 

[attachmentid=4055][attachmentid=4056]Bob here's the start of the project, today I machined up the filter adapter next on the list is the mount. This is the Toyota filter for the "torque converter" aka Automatic Transmission. Cost $4.10 plus tax, under $5 all in. Only mistake so far was my choice of material for the adapter, I grabbed what was handy and it turned out to be 4140 chromemoly so it was all carbide tooling to trun it out. The mount will lock the adapter with the inlet fitting and tighten with the large nut. Note on the outlet fitting (inner on which the filter mounts) I cut a radius so as to eliminate cavitation as the fluid exits the filter. There is enough clearance for the two magnets in there as well. I have the hose and when all is mounted I'll take pix and post them as well.
Frank

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon @ Jul 7 2006, 08:41 PM) [snapback]282812[/snapback]</div>

That looks great! Nice trick on the radius although I suspect the oil flow rate is modest.

I picked up the Echo auto-trans 'filter' and it turns out to be just another mesh screen . . . I'm so disappointed.

One thing I was wondering about is if the 'filter' element, not the can, might be mounted on the oil take-up tube, in the pan. This would still require dropping the pan every other oil change but at least the oil change intervals could start reaching towards Toyota's recommended interval.

I got the JC Whitney pan heater but have to do a little design work for the thermostat control. I need to have adjustable set points, ON and OFF, and decide if I want them to track ambient temperature. I'm not too worried about overheating the oil since my temperature probe is in the drain plug, fairly close to the heating element. But at 250 W., I'd be concerned about overheating the oil in the filter without a thermostat.

The real challenge is my coolant, block heater. It expects to use convective flow from the different density of the heated and cool coolant. But the ICE has only one, low source, the pump outlet that feeds a tube routed to the cabin heater and the heater vendor discourages routing the heated coolant 'over the block'. Worse, if I try to route the heater outlet to feed the block, it becomes a shunt and reduces or eliminates cabin heat.

What I need is a coolant plug, say on the inlet side of the water cooler. The heater has a one-way, ball valve so I wouldn't have to worry about a wrong-way coolant loop. I could then feed the heated coolant into the upper 'drain plug' or use the provided splice pipe into the coolant return and everything would just work. But it looks like the outside of the high-pressure side of the water pump is cover by the thermostat housing and hot water outlets.

A puzzle remains.

Bob Wilson

 

I just spent some time looking for a convienent return from the block heater (tank style) and don't see anything that doesn't provide some significant challanges. The inlet for the heater is super easy but the outlet back into the block you have your work cut out. Inlet just take it off the block drain Lower center of the block on the back side, but without pulling out the inverter and getting in there and possibly even drilling and tapping a hole? I don't want your job. Easier to call my parts guy and order the proper block heater for a Prius. He's told me that he'll ship UPS to US so not a biggie. If you want his name and number PM me and I'll give you all his details. I've got the template done for the filter mount and this thing would be a half hour job if it was a bypass filter. Say a .015" hole in the fill plug and the feed from the pressure checking port on the pump housing. I'm still waiting for the one from Mike in Olympia that has the ports and banjo housing and bypass check ball installed. He's still waiting for the guy to send him the housing that he sold exchange. If I don't hear in the next week or two I'll probably do it bypass style. I can convert it to full flow later, easily.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon @ Jul 11 2006, 11:06 PM) [snapback]284793[/snapback]</div>

That is pretty much how I see it too. Drilling and tapping a blind wall, especially while the engine is still in the car, is an invitation to ICE replacement.

Thanks for the PM offer. Once I get the part number, I'll try my local Toyota parts department, again, and see if that works. If no luck, I'll send a postal money order and get it done. My only concern is I don't think the block heater has a thermostat but I can solve that problem.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon @ Jul 11 2006, 11:06 PM) [snapback]284793[/snapback]</div>

Sounds like a plan. Do you have a photo of the housing where the tap will go?

When I changed the NHW11 transaxle oil and dropped the pan, I didn't pay much attention to the transaxle oil pump area. I did notice a pair of plugged galleries that appeared to go up to the pump area. I wondered at the time if one was the high-pressure and the other low-pressure side of the pump. They sure were convienient. I couldn't tell if they were threaded for 'force fitted.'

Bob Wilson

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon @ Jul 7 2006, 08:41 PM) [snapback]282812[/snapback]</div>

Frank

Later on this summer when I'm visitng my Aunt in PoCo, I'm going to have to swing by and check that out.

jay

 

it's still not installed, I have the template for the mount made and just need to cut the steel for it and drill the holes. The Denso filter is about .160" bigger than the ICE filter and will mount under the inner wheel shield bolted to the rad support. The hoses will be about a foot long. Probably not till next week as have friends in town for the next little while. And you can forget about the heat wave it's currently 60F on my back deck. The friends are from Phoenix AZ. Their going to freeze to death :blink:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bwilson4web @ Jul 12 2006, 05:41 AM) [snapback]284890[/snapback]</div>

the pressure tap for the filter feed comes from the pump housing where you hook the gauge up to check the pressure. Really easy to get to the pump just take off the drivers side inner lower skirt. About 7 small screws that hold it on. Then you can see the pump housing and the pressure port.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon @ Jul 12 2006, 09:59 PM) [snapback]285413[/snapback]</div>

Hobbit has a photo from "the naked Prius" presentation that shows the bottom of the ICE and transaxle from a 2004 Prius:



The inverter coolant drain plug is just to the right of the lower support bracket in the center. To the right and rear is the transaxle oil drain and above it, just behind the lower coolant hose, is the fill plug.

Bob Wilson

 

Does this look right? I did a quick powerpoint slide/jpeg to help me see the correct plugs...

Cheers,

Curt.

 

the pressure test port for the pump is on the pump cover which is right behind the drivers side wheel. Inside the wheel opening is a plastic cover which keeps gunk off the pump and MG2 and the bottom of the inverter. I've done a cut and paste out of the 2k4 service manual which shows the location of the port and plug. See attached image.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finman @ Jul 14 2006, 10:39 AM) [snapback]286216[/snapback]</div>

That looks right. I have an NHW11 which means I have a drain pan. However, I think Frank can confirm the plugs.

Bob Wilson

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bwilson4web @ Jul 14 2006, 04:06 PM) [snapback]286457[/snapback]</div>

those are the correct plugs and what they are for.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(htmlspinnr @ Jul 14 2006, 10:16 AM) [snapback]286260[/snapback]</div>

Rick your a candidate for a change in both of your cars. Living in PHX and driving in that heat all the time and your 2k4 with all the trips from CA to AZ in the heat your probably over due on it. I bought a little plastic pump in a local auto parts store that screws on to the top of a 1 liter plastic oil bottle, like the US 1 quart jugs and a hose the slips on the end and will pump a quart in 8 pumps, paid like 8 bucks for it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(htmlspinnr @ Jul 14 2006, 07:47 PM) [snapback]286497[/snapback]</div>

As a suggestion, have a clean, dry, water bottle handy and capture a 100 ml. sample. Things to look for:

1) color
2) opaque
3) smell

You might consider sending the oil sample to a testing service. There are several good services out there and I would recommend getting the viscosity tested at both 40C and 100C. I'm interested in tracking the changes:

http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/pri_toil.html
http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/pri_T_cold.html

Bob Wilson