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Solar eclipse 2017

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Aug 21, 2016.

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  1. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    We are headed for St Louis area by minivan due to traveling heavy with telescopes and my mom, who always brings a lot of stuff - coolers etc. Mom is getting dropped off to visit family so after that we will go wherever we have to go based on weather traffic.
     
    #21 wjtracy, Aug 4, 2017
  2. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    A few days of unusually congested roads. NW states are in and may remain in a hot bubble. 2017 wildfire season is above average so far but not setting records.

    If you are short of things to worry about, there will be many people with minimal fire-safety skills, plus fuels, plus road bottlenecks, plus heat.

    Might end up wishing for clouds and rain after all :eek:
     
    #22 tochatihu, Aug 6, 2017
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  3. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    If the wildfire smoke keeps up, viewing might even become safe without optical filters. Only respiratory filters will be needed. :-(

    Compared to a week ago, the smoke has reduced my PV production by 25% for the whole day, 32% at peak. And it isn't because of high temperatures (PV efficiency drops at high temps), because the past two days have been cooler. At least the surface air quality here as improved, as an on-shore flow of marine air has displaced the lowest level smoke. But if that flow subsides, the smoke at higher levels could quickly mix back down to the surface.

    PV1.JPG PV2.JPG PV3.JPG
    (The Today image is for Aug 6.)

    Cliff Mass's Weather-Climate blog mentions a 70% solar attenuation at Twisp earlier this week. I can personally attest to it being very bad there Friday morning, contributing to some bicyclists not being able to pedal up over the mountain pass that morning.
    Cliff Mass Weather and Climate Blog: Smoke Starts to Recede as Marine Air Pushes into Western Washington

    Please, people, don't do anything that starts any more fires.
     
    #23 fuzzy1, Aug 6, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
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  4. bestmapman

    bestmapman 04, 07 ,08, 09, 10, 16, 21 Prime

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    Does anyone have a good site that forecasts cloud cover.
     
    #24 bestmapman, Aug 6, 2017
  5. DavidA

    DavidA Prius owner since July 2009

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    #25 DavidA, Aug 7, 2017
  6. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    #26 fuzzy1, Aug 7, 2017
  7. DavidA

    DavidA Prius owner since July 2009

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    Got a couple eclipse glasses for less than $2 each from American Science and Surplus. They work. Thing is, if you wear prescription glasses, you need to combine them to see the Sun clearly.

    My 77mm camera lens filter came from Thousand Oaks Optical. Works very well and is quite a bit less $ than other competitors. That took 6 or 7 weeks to arrive, and I ordered it at the beginning of February. No hope of them delivering one in time now if you order from them.

    Both of those vendors are on the list that was linked above.

    Definitely you need to trust your vendor. Too many unsafe fakes out there right now.
     
    #27 DavidA, Aug 7, 2017
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    can i glance at it for a millisecond?
     
    #28 bisco, Aug 7, 2017
  9. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    (Gonna regret this but...) yes you can gaze upon El Sol directly, briefly, and without lasting harm. I bet many here already have done so. The point is, there is no point in doing so.

    You overload optical organ, scattering light every which way, and obtain no data, can't form an image. That is 'fast response', your eyes will turn away or blink. Can only be over-ridden by 'biochemicals' that PriusChat does not endorse :)

    I suppose a sober person cannot force their 'gaze upon' long enough for actual pathological retinal heating. Please do not attempt to prove me wrong!

    Things get dodgy during eclipses if there are substandard eye filters available. As sun is getting more shadowed, people want to see it. This is danger time where bad equipment lets you fix gaze on sun and actually admit enough milliwatts for retinal cookery. Don't do it. This is what all eclipse sites shout about.

    I will make a different plea. What you really want to see is solar corona up there, and dynamic darkness down here. You can see those best if your eyes are darkness adapted prior. Time constant exceeds 3 minutes.

    I argue that folks who have black bags over their heads until second contact will have the best view of main events, having flipped their rhodopsin for high sensitivity. Few will be that strong! But third contact and after, let 'er rip and watch solar crescent growth. If your goggles are too 'bright', fold em over double and close the other eye.

    Main point is that two outer eclipse phases are symmetrical. Second is no less informative than first. Forgo the first and save your rhodopsin for the dimmer main events.

    Knowing people, I doubt that any will wear black head-bags early. But such could enhance perception of wind, thermal and sound.
     
    #29 tochatihu, Aug 7, 2017
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  10. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I haven't read up on any modern changes to the old advice. But the old version was that the moment of third contact, the emerging 'diamond ring', was the moment of danger. With the eyes focused and in the process of getting dark adapted, and pupils opening up to admit as much light as possible, the sudden re-appearance of the sun's surface with no eye warning could cause a retinal burn. Binoculars or direct viewing through a telescope make it even worse.

    The rest of the time, the eyes could protect themselves. But I'm still running on mid-late 20th Century advice, without any 21st Century updates, so don't blame me if you get hurt.
    Your eyelids can't keep the glance that short. Nor can you focus that quick, even when young.
     
    #30 fuzzy1, Aug 8, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
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  11. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    The good news: total smoke in the air column was down today. My PV system saw just 16% attenuation at peak production, 12% for the overall day.

    The bad news: the low altitude inflow of clean marine air fell, and vertical mixing increased, bringing more of that smoke down to the surface to irritate eyes and lungs.
     
    #31 fuzzy1, Aug 8, 2017
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  12. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    #32 fuzzy1, Aug 8, 2017
  13. RCO

    RCO Senior Member

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    The prevailing Westerly Winds ensure that Cornwall is blessed with really fresh air, as there's nothing but ocean between our landmass and the Americas. Unfortunately we play host to many atmospheric depressions which deposit great volumes of rain in horizontal airstreams even during our summer. Today is overcast with rain! Still, that's better than wildfire and drought conditions I guess.
     
    #33 RCO, Aug 8, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
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  14. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    #34 tochatihu, Aug 8, 2017
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  15. wxman

    wxman Active Member

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    According to the GFS ensembles ("spaghetti plots"), upper air configuration appears to be trending toward upper ridging over the central CONUS:

    Animation using Javascript Animation Player (frame #14 today August 9; will change every 24 hours; 00Z Tuesday August 22 = Monday August 21 @ 8 PM EDT.)

    Upper ridging typically results in cloud suppression. Convection this time of year typically occurs around the periphery of the upper ridging.

    Still too soon to tell with any degree of confidence, however, as spread between ensemble members is still too great.
     
    #35 wxman, Aug 9, 2017
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  16. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Fascinating to watch the spaghetti diverge.
     
    #36 tochatihu, Aug 9, 2017
  17. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    #37 tochatihu, Aug 16, 2017
  18. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    #38 tochatihu, Aug 16, 2017
  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Spring City, TN looks to be a pretty good viewing spot. Now to see if there is someway to make a star-map photo and visit again in 182 days to make a second photo. Then compare the two to see if we can identify the gravity effect of Sol.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #39 bwilson4web, Aug 17, 2017
  20. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Give me an outlook update ..we are committed ...in StL
     
    #40 wjtracy, Aug 17, 2017
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