Does it bother you that the Prius is not Union made?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Maytrix @ Jul 9 2006, 06:43 PM) [snapback]283585[/snapback]</div>

The question was whether buying a non-union made car was troubling, not the relative incomes of different people.

 

I used to be rabidly anti-union. I believed the unions were the reason American manufacturing fled these shores and began building everything we buy in foreign lands. Union greed and unreasonable work rules were the root cause of it all.

Lately I've been rethinking my position.

Engineers, accountants, and other professions are by-and-large non-union. Yet today, what is the biggest trend? Off-shoring professional workers to China, India, and other low-wage countries. The reason? Well, engineers in this country won't work for $5-10 per hour like they will in China. They can't, of course, and still afford to live in a house and raise a family in America.

So the same companies who out-sourced their manufacturing because of the evil unions are now off-shoring their professional workers because of the wage-gap.

And which countries still have manufacturing jobs, engineering jobs, and a thriving middle class? European countries, by and large. Where unions and prohibitive laws prevent companies like BMW, Infineon, and even Hewlett-Packard from hollowing out their German companies and shipping the jobs to Singapore and India. And people still flock to buy BMWs and Siemens cell phones.

I guess the unions aren't so toxic after all. Maybe they actually promote a stable middle-class in the face of the short-term thinking and greed of the company officers.

And my politics would usually make M.S. look like a flaming liberal!

 

There probably is a place for unions with Hotel service employees, we could name a few other industries like this where the labor would genuinely take the shaft if not for the unions. Once the hotel unions are arguing for 80 an hour for maid service, hotels are going broke and we can't afford to stay at a hotel any longer, then it will be past due to revert this industry to non union. That's the kind of stranglehold the UAW has on the American auto industry.

The auto industry is going to fold in america under the weight of the unions. Maybe the union can stand outside the closed down plants after they are bankrupt and picket the bankrupcy or something.

My wife is a school teacher and forced to be part of a union. Near as I can tell, they only suck money off the top of her paycheck and basically never provide anything that we see.

I am happy my prius is not made by union (if that is true)... Too bad for Ford, and GM that they have to die under the hand of the UAW.

 

if auto workers' unions were anything other than more politics... well, even then i wouldn't care.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gas hater @ Jul 9 2006, 07:00 PM) [snapback]283596[/snapback]</div>

The earnings of an auto assembly worker as compared to those of a highly trained physician have to do with the poster's comfort level of buying a non-union product. That was your original question in the title of this thread (Does it bother you that the Prius is not Union made?), was it not?

 

Hi Gas Hater,

Nobody should suffer in a perfect world.

But everybody does in this imperfect one.

People will still buy cars. And there will be people building those cars. And those people do not need to be working at Toyota, or GM, neccasarily.

The idea behind the Prius was to bring to market a car that was so advanced that it was beyond what Korean and Chinese cars makers could bring to market. The future car could compete with those low-cost cars in that the advancement resulted in unique qualities that even at the more expensive Japanese manufacted price, the qualities would be justified. This was one of the reasons the 100 Percent improvement in fuel economy was the directive from management. They found it abhorrent that they could be redued to assembling parts mostly made in China. Toyota was not trying to gut GM, it was and is just trying to keep its own head above water 20 years down the road. We cannot begrudge them that, can we?

If Ford and GM make cars of no material advantage than Hyundai's and Cherry's, it will not go well for them and their workforce. GM needs to be trying to tread water. The product must be worth the money for it, in the marketplace. Worth means allot of things to different people. And that is where the opportunity lies.

There probably is allot of management over-pay at GM. It looks like Kirk Kerkorian is going to get his pound of flesh out them too. No Union to protect them from irate money mad finance guys.

 

not at all. In fact, I am happy my car is made by Japanese robots instead of a bunch of lazy unionized rednecks !

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lola'05 @ Jul 9 2006, 09:48 PM) [snapback]283589[/snapback]</div>

I don't care if the Prius was made by union workers. However, if you are a public school teacher you had better belong to the national or local teacher's union. All it takes is 1 female accusing a male teacher of anything to do with sex and you are in a world of s--t. The union here provides 2 million $$ in legal services for its members and gives excellent representation when over zealous principals and APs dump on teachers needlessly. I would not want to be a non member in this profession.

As far as GM's union goes- way too much money wasted on employees that aren't even working due to layoffs. I understand that only about 12% of the entire US pop. gets free or subsidized medical ins. as retirees. GM is losing billions of $$ paying for retirees. If 12% of the whole US pop. gets medical benefits after retiring what does that tell you about the rest of us? We're on our own.

Unions are very necessary when management screws over their employees needlessly. Too much of a good thing is bad also. A good union is worth its weight in gold when you need help provided it does a good job when needed for real employee problems.

 

Sure, when I went to the dealer the 1st thing I asked the salesman was, "Is this car union made?" . . . NOT!

 

It doesn't bother me.

The time for unions is long gone. Hundred years ago, when workers didn't have the FLSA or State/Fed DOL, and workers were KILLED by their employers (even the families died during the early union years), I can see the purpose of the unions.
/
Now, the unions exist to provide healthcare for an entire family without an employee deduction for anything? (see CA supermarket strikes). Most people don't get that....it's a cost of modern living and benefits. Meanwhile, people are now shifting away from grocery stores to the WalMart/Target supercenters and Costcos. Albertsons is closing ten stores in my city alone! Strike and now less jobs.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Jul 9 2006, 09:35 PM) [snapback]283604[/snapback]</div>

Maybe your wife's local union is lousy. Or maybe she doesn't know what they're doing for her.

Mine does plenty. They are involved in a lot of grievances with the district violating the contract. A lot due to post and bid abuse, working conditions, etc. If it weren't for the union teachers on the top of the salary schedule would be fired for no reason so the district save money by hiring just out of college teachers on the bottom of the salary schedule. And as soon as they got a masters degree and a little experience...they'd be out the door too in favor of lowest wage teachers. It's happening in other districts that don't have "just cause" in their contracts. I pay equally into my health care with the district. I agreed to waive a cost of living increase and put that money towards my healthcare. The contract was agreed to and ratified. Then the district wanted to make me pay all of my healthcare anyway. That's taking a pay cut. And it violates the contract. Either I get a raise and pay my own healthcare or I don't get a raise and they pay their fair share. The district was swimming in surplus too. (Until that moron Alan Bersin pissed it all away. He is an idiot and Schwarzenegger made him head of the State Board of Education. What a doofus. He should have been indicted along with Randy "Duke" Cunningham for his school scams.) In the last decade teachers' salaries have eroded 11% based on cost of living and equating to 'same dollars'. That means I've basically already taken an 11% paycut over the last decade. My union makes sure my working conditions are safe and that the district abides by the agreements in the contract. They negotiate the contract for ALL teachers, not just the ones paying union dues. So those that don't pay get a free ride. Personally, I'd like to see those that don't pay on their own...making less money, paying all of their own healthcare, defending there own rites, filing their own grievances, whatever. If you don't pay for the service you shouldn't benefit. So add teachers to the hotel maids and Walmart cashiers....we need union protection from abuse and expoitation too.

 

Cool! The Prius IS Union Made! Clearly a union working for the good of the company. No company=no jobs=irrelevant union.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Smooth Operator @ Jul 9 2006, 05:50 PM) [snapback]283574[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Smooth Operator @ Jul 9 2006, 05:50 PM) [snapback]283574[/snapback]</div>

BRAVO!

As is typical of most Americans (and it seems many of the posters here), people don't seem to realize that much of the labor force in large companies in Japan belongs to some union. However, that being said, the labor/management relationship in Japan is much different. In fact, when unions go on strike in Japan it is often simply a refusal to work overtime or overtime past a set number of hours. At the same time, smaller companies in Japan are not unionized and they are the ones where many of the sub-assemblies are manufactured. Employees of these smaller companies often have little of no health benefits and must make due with much lower wages even though they are doing essentially the same job as people in the company that uses their output.

People also have to recogize that retirement plans in Japan are not very good. This is made even worse by the fact that the average employee is forced to retire at 55. Also, very few women work much past the age of 25 as they are expected to find a husband and then quit, go home, raise the kids, and manage the house. Families are still very close and it is quite common to find the parents living with the first-born son and his family because papa-san just can't make it on what he gets in retirement.

In the U.S. we enjoy a large amount of freedom and mobility. You can easily change jobs. You have a reasonable amount of protection from unreasonable demands by an employer. In most cases you have damn good health benefits and (until recently a reasonable expectation of a comfortable retirement). Contrast this to what it was like before the unions organized labor in the rust-belt industries and a blindman could see that many of those perks you take for granted were won by some blue collar worker standing in the rain/cold on a picket line. Why? Because when companies agreed to a union contract many of the benefits also were passed on the the salaried workers.

I worked for GM, I was a union steward in one of the technical unions for broadcast employees, and I've worked for a Japanese company so, contrary to many of the posters here, I probably have one of the broadest views of your discussion.

I bought a Prius beause it was the right thing to do. It was also the logical thing to do since the price of gas will just continue to rise. BTW, the last time I bought a foreign car was in the 1970's when it was a Benz 220B. Yup, no gas lines for me. h34r: Since it appears that the American sheeple have gotten use to $3.00+ per gallon for their gasoline I'm sure that the Prius was just as good a bet as the 220D. I expect that by this time next year gas will be pushing $4.00/gal. The good thing is it may get a few of those HUMMERS and SUVs off the road. B)

 

I have not looked for the Union label in some time. Don't care. My cars are made in Japan, by Japanese that care.

That's all that matters to me.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Jul 9 2006, 11:15 PM) [snapback]283644[/snapback]</div>

Dang, you took the words straight out of my mouth. Nothing more to add. I totally agree. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Toyota is doing something pretty good. As they say....."looking foward".

Cheers

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Smooth Operator @ Jul 9 2006, 05:50 PM) [snapback]283574[/snapback]</div>

It would bother me very much if the Prius was not union made. But since the Prius IS union made, I am quite happy.

There has certainly been a lot of corruption in American unions, and there are a lot of things that need fixing about them. But unions are the difference between workers at Walmart who work full time and overtime and still can't pay the bills, and workers being able to support their families. Unions are the reason every one of you reading this (unless you were born into a wealthy family) is not working for 25 cents an hour today. Unions are the reason we are not a third-world country with a super-rich class and a poverty-stricken lower class and nothing in between. If you are middle class, you owe that to unions, for all the corruption in some of them.

Yes, I am glas the prius is union made.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rlongenbach @ Jul 9 2006, 11:55 PM) [snapback]283632[/snapback]</div>

Companies are still murdering their workers today. Unions are needed now as much as ever. Don't you people read the news? Those recent disasters in the coal mines were caused by the companies breaking the rules and a lot of people died that should not have.