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Charges for 10 seconds and stops - battery cycle?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by 4md, Jun 9, 2017.

  1. 4md

    4md Member

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    Today I saw very strange behavior. Started the car and drove 9-10 miles with 45mph on cruise control, then about a mile downhill and then stopped at traffic light. The battery was 1 bar to full, but the ICE started and kept running. After few more miles, when arrived, I didn't turn of the car and watched the strange behavior:
    10 seconds charging; 10 seconds not charging and this keep repeating for around 20-30 minutes. While charging, the engine was running rough with little vibrations, and when moving from charging/not charging state the car (was in P) moved a bit forward and back. The last 2-3 charging cycles was longer, for about a minute then the ICE stopped. After that everything was back to normal and I took the same route to home without anything abnormal.

    Is it some kind of a battery cycle or indicates a problem?
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    welcome!
    sounds like the hybrid battery is weak. how many miles on her?

    did the icon stay one bar from the top the whole time?
     
  3. 4md

    4md Member

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    Thank you, Bisco!
    It has 104k miles, when I stopped, the SOC was around 50%. When charging 1 bar was added, when discharging - 1 bar down. After those 20-30 minutes the SOC level was varying as usual.
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i can't recall reading of this behavior before, have you owned the car since new?

    how is the health of the 12 volt battery?
     
  5. 4md

    4md Member

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    No, I'm the second owner, bought it about 4 months and 10k miles ago. But the mileage is genuine and nobody messed with the odo. The car has full service history in Toyota and the only strange thing in it was that when it was ~55k mies old, Toyota performed (or couldn't perform...) some kind of software update that f*cked the inverter and it was changed under warranty.
    The 12v battery is new - changed it before ~1000 miles, but it's regular lead-acid 44Ah battery, not AGM type. Maybe it's connected to another problem that I posted today: Prius 2011 - P0A7F | PriusChat.
    Maybe I should wrote in that topic, sorry. :(
     
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  6. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    A regular lead acid battery is not safe! When being charged it releases harmful gasses that are not vented outside like the correct AGM battery is.
    On a regular car (& Gen 4 Prius) the 12 volt battery is under the hood where is gets plenty of ventilation to disperse those gasses.
     
  7. 4md

    4md Member

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    I've connected the ventilation hose that takes those gases out. I've owned a Volvo which battery was in the same location and was also lead-acid, but it had two of those pipes for each side of the battery. The battery I bought came with a plug to be put in the opposite side of the ventilation hose ("unused" side). Not sure, but as far as I know, the OEM battery of the Prius 3 in Europe is lead-acid too.
     
  8. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    Sounds like your 12V battery is fine. The software upgrade you spoke of was to protect the inverter. We all got it. Sounds like the upgrade was too late. I doubt the software damaged the inverter, rather the inverter was already damaged when the software was updated.

    Back to your issue. No codes or lights on? I wouldn't worry too much about what the car is doing. If there really is a problem you will get the lights (yellow triangle etc). Wait, just read your other post. Yes, there is a problem with the hybrid battery. If you don't have experience with rebuilding them you will be facing a "learning curve". You can get a rebuilt one, you can buy a new one from Toyota. New they cost around $2500, rebuilts are under $1000.
     
    #8 David Beale, Jun 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
  9. 4md

    4md Member

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    Thank you for the reply, David! The new battery is not a problem, but I want to be sure if I'll purchase a new one. Is it possible to be some kind of a software or module issue and not with the battery?
    I wrote to a seller in alibaba!com, representing cebabattery!com and he told me that they manufacture Prius 3 battery packs and sell them for $1000 and the shipping to the EU is $355 which I think is a good price. Strange thing is that their batteries are not rectangular, but cylindrical. Does anyone have experience with those Chinese batteries, are they a crappy product? :D The guy sent me this video about the battery pack installation, where the cylindrical batteries can be seen:


    I haven't asked my local Toyota dealer for prices yet, but as far as I know their rates, it would cost much more than the prices you quoted.
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you might be a prime candidate for a prolong battery charger/reconditioner. contact @jeff652
     
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  11. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    I can't speak on the battery you have been offered, except to say Toyota and Honda started out using cylindrical cells and Toyota have moved away from them. I think Tesla use them in Lithium chemistry but Toyota set up a plant with Panasonic to make the batteries for their hybrids. Their engineers settled on "prismatic" or rectangular NiMH cells for the gen. 2 and 3. I trust their engineering, as Prius batteries are actually very reliable, being rated for at least 10 years or "the life of the car" for the most part. There will always be a few failures but most last as long as rated or longer.

    If it was me and the car is in good shape otherwise I would stick with a Toyota battery, used, rebuilt, or new, in order of cost.
     
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  12. 4md

    4md Member

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    Thank you both for the answers and help! I'll look up for some info about the battery recharging/reconditioning and then will write to Jeff.
    Tomorrow I'll check the local Toyota dealer for prices on new battery and if they offer rebuilt ones. Prices here are a bit different than in the US, e.g. the new Prius starts at about $34k, the 2.3 Mustang starts at $57k :D But definitely a battery from Toyota would be a better choice. I think not to rush and wait until it dies completely or I start to get lower mpg (now it's ~56 on the highway with cruise control at 70 mph and ~49 at the city with a lot of traffic and traffic lights. Tires are not most efficient ones - 17" Pirelli P Zero Nero). Definitely won't scrap the car, because it's in good condition, fresh interior and has good equipment.

    Today decided to check the copper battery connectors for corrosion and they weren't in very good shape. Disassembled everything and cleaned them. I don't think the cleaning will make any difference, but decided to try. Took the opportunity to measure the individual modules (without a load, for example 12v headlight bulb) and the middle ones were little undervolted - 7.30v, the side ones were 7.4 - 7.5v. I'm attaching some photos of how the copper plates looked.

    PS: When connected all the wiring and went to test if the car starts ok, I almost shаt myself when it didn't go into the "READY" mode and the yellow triangle appeared. :ROFLMAO: Turned out I forgot to lock the safety plug...
     

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    #12 4md, Jun 11, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
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  13. 4md

    4md Member

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    Here are the prices from Toyota at my country:
    New battery (only the battery modules, without the relays, modules, cooling fan, etc): $5500
    New battery if the old one is returned: $4280
    Toyota does not offer rebuilt ones, and they don't have a charger to cycle the battery cells with discharge-charge cycles. Only to charge the battery if the car does not start.
    As I thought - I'm crossing out our local Toyota dealer from the options when this have to be fixed.
     
  14. 4md

    4md Member

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    Update about the situation...
    Last months I was driving another cars and did little driving with the Prius - about 3'100 miles (5'000 km) after the cleaning, the "Check hybrid system" message appeared again.

    This time the error was P0A80 :) Went out and after 6-7 miles the error lit up. Cleared it using the Wi-Fi elm and did 320 miles trip without any issues. I'm going home after few days and new 320 miles and I'll check the individual modules with load using a 55w headlight bulb. I'll report back when I check them.
    I think it will need 4-5 modules judging by the Hybrid Assistant app.
     
  15. WilDavis

    WilDavis Senior Member

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    Sorry I'm late to the party, but I've noticed similar behaviour particularly on those hot/humid days when I have the A/C running continuously. SoC goes from 65% (7 Greens) down to 41% (2 Purples) in short order (~10 mins) and ICE kicks in and cuts off when the SoC is back up to 50-60% (Blues/Greens) - no DTCs. In the hot/humid recent days of summer (past 2 months), I've noticed that constant use of the A/C (essential to keep TractionBattery cool), really does a number on the SoC! :eek: