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Prius Battery Replacement Kit (GenII/GenIII) with NEW custom cells

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by 2k1Toaster, Oct 13, 2017.

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  1. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    +1

    The first time I did my swap, I even had a day delay because I just couldn't find the proper socket adapter! That darn 10mm always seems to go missing. You never know what might happen when DIY'ing anything.

    I think there is about 4-hours of "work" in there for the leisurely weekend mechanic. 1 hour of work for a pro. I highly recommend taking those 4 hours of work and spreading them out over a good while.
     
    #41 2k1Toaster, Oct 20, 2017
  2. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    I've had some requests for showing the capacity of a new module.

    These readings were made by a Keithley 2281S-20-6 Battery Simulator and Tester. This is a $3K piece of kit, but very helpful for characterizing batteries. And also for "playing back" the data in a simulation to develop mobile hardware which I also do.

    You can find it's info here: 2281S-20-6 Dynamic Model Battery Simulator | Tektronix

    amp_hour_discharge.jpg

    During the discharge cycle to measure capacity the unit measured 6.546121 Ah, and yes it really is that accurate. The original cells are also labelled as 6.5Ah capacity. Remember this pack is to replace what has worked in the past with a new equivalent, and it delivers.

    And to be clear, half the modules at the same Ah rating is still the same total Wh rating because you have to multiply by voltage. These modules are twice as high in voltage.
     
    #42 2k1Toaster, Oct 20, 2017
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  3. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    In reality, the whole repair took well over a week as I had to first determine how many modules had failed, then buy them, and wait on shipping. I also had to perform more tasks: clean all the bus bars and wiring connections and I decided to rearrange/shuffle all 28 modules to get the middle modules that were failing out to the edges. That's a lot more work/time. If you're lucky, only 1 module fails at the right end of the pack (opposite the ECU); HUGE time saver.

    I'm not sure I understand your second question. Basically I went very slow the first time, referring to videos several times, not knowing exactly what tools to use, trying to memorize bolt and hardware locations, being cautious, etc. I got techstream during the first repair so on the second failure I used it to find which one had died greatly speeding up the diagnostic process.

    $2500 installed total (tax, labor, no core charge, 4yr warranty). Like most rebuilders, he recycles the old pack by splitting out the still working modules to make a refurb ($950) and groups the duds into a core pack back to Toyota.
     
    #43 fotomoto, Oct 20, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
  4. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    2k1Toaster,
    Why must you tempt me with even more cool battery equipment?
    Don't you know I am already far over my tool/toy budget for the year?

    Must...resist....
     
    #44 ericbecky, Oct 20, 2017
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  5. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    I am a sucker for cool tools with fancy LCD screens. :)


    fluke.jpg
     
    #45 2k1Toaster, Oct 20, 2017
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  6. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    +1 on that. I've already google searched to see if any were available at a reasonable price. Found one on ebay for $300........I wishhhhhhhhhhh

    2k1,

    Is the capacity test part of the mapping it does of a real battery in order to get a battery profile for later simulations? I noticed it discharged it at a 1/2 C rate. Is that the normal standard you use for capacity measurements?
     
    #46 TMR-JWAP, Oct 20, 2017
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  7. kenoarto

    kenoarto Senior Member

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    So you opted for a genuine new Toyota battery for $2100part+400labor?
     
    #47 kenoarto, Oct 20, 2017
  8. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    @fotomoto in the quote says "Like most rebuilders..." They got a used battery.
     
    #48 Prodigyplace, Oct 20, 2017
  9. kenoarto

    kenoarto Senior Member

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    That doesn't make sense either. $950part +$1550 labor???
     
    #49 kenoarto, Oct 20, 2017
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  10. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    For $300 on eBay, I'd pick up a second one just to use as a really cool table centre-piece. :)

    So this unit is a power supply that can do constant power, constant current, or constant voltage. It can also be a load box and do a constant current discharge, constant power discharge, constant load discharge, etc. It then has lots of memory points available and a super accurate ADC combined with the ability to talk to a PC.

    When you add that altogether, you can do lots of really cool things. One of those things is to charge and/or discharge an actual living battery and create a full working battery model. From this model you can then "play it back" where the power supply will automatically track the output voltage and current abilities of the battery it tested as if the battery were giving you the power. It accurately simulates load step responses on the cell by drooping appropriately, and even just basic lowering the output voltage over time as the SOC lowers. Infinitely useful for characterizing anything battery powered within its voltage and current limitations.

    1/2C is standard for Ah ratings on discharge. I am trying to do the industry standard capacity tests because that's the only way to compare apple to apples. I've got big load boxes that can do KW continuous discharge on a few hundred volts at a time. Sort of like how a vehicle might discharge a pack when you floor it. :D

    I think, could be wrong, that installer installed a new Toyota battery, so $2100 plus $400 labour but he also got the customers old pack back. From that he scavenges good-enough modules and sell those as refurbs to many other customers for $950. Then also arranges dead modules once he has enough into an old enclosure and returns to Toyota for a core refund. That makes the $950 refurb packs basically all profit and offsets the new packs he installs. It is a pretty ingenious business model if that's what it is.
     
    #50 2k1Toaster, Oct 20, 2017
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  11. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Yup.

    The entire saga is at the link in my signature.
     
    #51 fotomoto, Oct 20, 2017
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  12. kenoarto

    kenoarto Senior Member

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    Why didn't you install it yourself and save $400?
     
    #52 kenoarto, Oct 20, 2017
  13. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Pretty much except he told me the pool of good modules is getting smaller and smaller so he sometimes runs out of used packs to sell. He also offers several other services for Pri like water pumps, inverter pumps, transaxle repair, 12v battery replacement, etc so he's not a one-trick pony business.

    But that's enough of a threadjack.
     
    #53 fotomoto, Oct 20, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
  14. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    As has been explained many times, you can't just go buy one just like that because most dealers won't sell you one or ship. If you could find one locally to save the high shipping costs, you'd still have to pay taxes and an upfront $1350 core charge.

    And lets go back to regularly scheduled programming.
     
    #54 fotomoto, Oct 20, 2017
  15. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    OK guys first 100 miles down.
    Nothing to report.
    Just got in and drove to appointments, etc.
    53 mpg.
    Unseasonably warm for Wisconsin.
    70 degrees outside at 9pm
     
    #55 ericbecky, Oct 20, 2017
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  16. Fredsimm

    Fredsimm Active Member

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    Now we're getting some feedback. Not many miles, but at least no bad news from the start.
     
    #56 Fredsimm, Oct 21, 2017
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  17. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Noticed no difference between this and OEM pack. I did a few big hills up and down. (big for Wisconsin). No issues.

    I haven't done any quantitative tests live while driving yet. I suppose it might be good to get a baseline of some sort.

    For these first miles I'm driving around with my old OEM pack handy in case I need to swap back to it. Strapped down in the rear hatch along my tools.
     
    #57 ericbecky, Oct 21, 2017
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  18. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Carrying the added battery & tools has to lower the mpg due to added weight. I can see the benefit though until the new pack is proven.
     
    #58 Prodigyplace, Oct 21, 2017
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  19. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Ha, ha. Yesterday I actually drive around with 3 extra packs.
    - A Gen 1 Prius pack
    - A Gen 1 Civic pack
    - A Gen 2 Prius pack.
    Plus the pack that was powering the car.

    Additionally, I had a passenger for the last 45 miles. Normally it's just me in the car commuting.
     
    #59 ericbecky, Oct 21, 2017
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  20. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    For those who have asked here are the results of a seat-of-the-pants battery drain test. Pack has just over 210 miles on it so far.

    Parameters:
    Car in Ready.
    Parking brake on.
    Transmission in Neutral.
    A/C on with fan on HI.
    Front defroster and rear defogger on.
    Headlights on.
    60 degree F outside temperature

    Drain pack until one bar showing on Info screen.

    Results:
    Highest battery block 14.96v
    Lowest battery block 14. 83v

    .13v difference

    Ending SOC 32%
     
    #60 ericbecky, Oct 23, 2017
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