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Reconditioning Experience with Hybrid Automotive's Prolong System

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by biglew8, May 16, 2017.

  1. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    See the link in my signature. I, too, only hit 233v on my first reconditioning then every monthly top balance charge after that I saw continued improvement. (y)
     
  2. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    I am seeing in the HA site that the balancing voltages are 235V-240V. I understand that's a ballpark approximation, but still I want to see if I can get closer to 235 before begin the last discharge. It went up 2 volts in two hours, so technically it's still charging. I need to wait 4-6 hours after it stops rising, so I got ways to go.

    My first top off before any discharging took me to 244V.
     
  3. WilDavis

    WilDavis Senior Member

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    …some of my earlier long charges got right up to 240V, but the more recent ones topped out at 239V (…yup, I know I'm a bit anal :rolleyes:, but apparently longer is better!)
     
  4. priusb78

    priusb78 Member

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    Having a look at your final charge voltages and the time elapsed, I tend to say that your battery is not really full yet and not fully balanced.

    Doing my first cycles I was also happy to reach voltages of 236-238V in approx. 16-20 hours.
    Then I tested longer charging. After approx. 25-30 hours I reach with the same packs voltages in the range of 238 - 243V.
    I have a constant temperature in my workshop of 20 degrees C (68 F) and watch the battery temp while charging. I have a Gen 2 fan cooling the packs. The temp stays at 20 C for about 26-28 hours. At the final end it starts to rise to approx. 24-25 C and the voltage drops 1-3 V. That's the clear sign for cells being really full and starting to convert energy into heat. After a while all cells should have reached that stage and then are really balanced. Checking module voltages after a few hours of rest shows them all within a range of 0.01V.
     
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  5. WilDavis

    WilDavis Senior Member

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    …so what are you suggesting as a possible solution? Just let them soak for longer, say 20+ hours? (Thanks in advance for any tips!)
     
  6. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Question for the experts:
    Given that a battery can be very out of balance and not show a marked decrease in gas mileage, is wringing that last hundredth of a volt out of the charge (or discharge) a good use of time? I used to do that. But as I ponder it, it would seem to me that you could not tell the difference in performance when you're that close. And there is no danger at that point of any cells being a opposite ends of the permissible SOC. Just wondering "out loud." I mean, if I was doing it commercially, I'd want the customer to get the best battery possible, but for my own car, I think I'd say "good enough." <Looking for the head scratching emoticon now>
     
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  7. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    At 7 pm (just a little while ago) the voltage went up 238V. So still rising. That means at least 4-5 more hours on this charge. I am probably going to forgo the last discharge cycle and begin using the car after this charge/balance is complete. I figure I will let it charge until I do not see a rise in voltage and perhaps see a slight drop. That's when I begin the 4 hour balance (per HA instructions). So far at 7 the voltage was still rising. So on we go....
     
  8. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    At 8pm the voltage rose to 239V, so still rising...
     
  9. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Don't forget to let the car sit for at least an hour after you are done;).
     
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  10. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    Update: 240V at 10:50pm. Still rising.
     
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  11. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    Yes, I remember. I think at this point I will leave it until early morning, then unplug and drive late morning. Unless I am seeing rising voltage still in the early am.

    I also have the 12V battery on my motorcycle's Battery Tender.
     
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  12. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    My observation was that voltage rose at the rate of 1 volt per hour. I stopped when it no longer was rising at each hour check. I initially was checking each 15 min, so was comfortable with changing to once an hour.

    It is not necessary to do the 4-6 hour soak on the interim charges, only on the first and last charge of each reconditioning event.

    As agonising as it is (especially on your first conditioning foray) it is better to stop "watching the pot" once you have established some metrics. Make sure you sleep or otherwise do something else to take your mind off watching the process intensely, that is once you have satisfied the need for curiosity. This is easier to achieve on the second or third outing, once you are more comfortable with the process.
    See above, re 1 V per hour.
    Do you mean it is stable at 233 V, or it just that it took longer to reach 233 V. If it is stable move on to discharging. If it is still rising at the rate ~ 1 V per hour keep going until it stabilises. Don't worry too much about the time taken (as long as it doesn't exceed 48 hours), you just have to accept that to do the job well, it will take a long time. It also helps to remember a healthier battery charges slower, so in this particular scenario, speed is the enemy. This is a good exercise in increasing enduring patience. lol.
    Like I said above, the soak can be forgone (it is a "nice to have" in the interim cycles), if time is an issue.

    If you need to finish after 2 cycles, you can always come back in a week or two and do a modified (reduced) cycle, so, do a full soak (balancing) charge/discharge to 84 V/charge/discharge to 17 V/full soak (balancing) charge then rest for 30 - 60 min before putting back into service. Just bear in mind that this second round will take a lot longer than the first round, due to the lower target voltages involved.

    Hope that helps.
     
    #412 dolj, Oct 23, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
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  13. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    I have noticed the same thing. It takes about 1V/hour, even a bit slower towards the end.

    It kept going above 233V all the way up to 240V where it finally stabilized and stayed for at least 5 hours. I have decided to not do the third cycle, so I soaked at 240V from 11pm last night until 4am this morning. Turned everything off at 4am and about to go try the car around 11am. It is an exercise in patience, but I do have another car and of course I've been doing other things these past three days :) Once in a while I look into the hatch to read the numbers, but I am really going about my usual business. If this was my only vehicle I would not be able to do this. Would probably have to rent a car for the duration of this process. I live in the countryside and pretty much anything outside the house requires driving.

    That is nice to know. I could have saved about 5 hours of soaking between the second charge and second discharge. Will keep that in mind for next time.


    That definitely helps, thank you. Now let me clarify. In a "modified" (reduced) cycle you describe, do I skip the 134V step? I never heard of that one. So I do two cycles, but skip the first discharge instead of skipping the last one as I did this time? Interesting.
     
  14. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    So at 4am this morning the voltage was still at 240V as I left it around 11pm last night. So I called it quits for this round and unplugged everything. I am about to take it for a little ride and see how it goes. It's been sitting unplugged since 4 am and now it's almost 11am.

    It took 23 hours to reach 240V after the second discharge (down to 84V). and I left it on to soak for additional 5 hours. That's 28 hours charge from 84V discharge cycle.

    As I said, I decided to stop there and may do some more in the near future. It's a good thing I have another car I can use.
     
  15. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    The test drive went very well. That is to say I have noticed exactly ZERO difference from before the process. No error codes, no strange behavior, just as before I started. I went for a drive about 20 miles or so up and down a hill (both ways) and got usual behavior from the SOC display as well as Consumption. My first bar on the graph was low, like 30MPG, second was closer to 50MPG and third was lose to 75MPG. That is all meaningless, of course, but I know that it is about what I get on this type of drive in this car. In other words, no earth-shattering changes. Which is not a bad thing at all since this car performed like a champ before and I was very skittish of doing the conditioning on it for fear of disrupting a good thing.

    So far all is well here.
     
  16. WilDavis

    WilDavis Senior Member

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    Good to learn that there are no ill effects! I must add here that I've noticed that the SoC is spending more time in the higher numbers, for instance 70% plus, even more so since the last short recondition last week! :)
     
  17. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    That's the biggest change I noticed after grid charging. Probably a good sign that the battery is healthy, but was just a little out of balance. But who knows for sure what evil lurks in the hearts of batteries? ;)
     
  18. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Yes, skip the first discharge and go straight into the discharge to 84 V, but I would only do this if you can get back into it with a week or two.

    Given your driving report, you may even consider it job done for this round, and forgo doing the third discharge altogether.
     
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  19. priusb78

    priusb78 Member

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    Yes, exactly. I usually go now for 24 to 30 hours (staying far below the maximum requested by Hybrid Automotive in their instructions). Watching temperature rising at the end is the best sign of getting the cells balanced.
     
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  20. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    +1