1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

The importance of hyphens

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by hkmb, Oct 31, 2017.

  1. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    109,076
    49,576
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    ''that's not a nife, this is a knife''
     
    RCO, hkmb, xliderider and 1 other person like this.
  2. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,352
    10,194
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    But we portray ourselves as better than you, better than everyone else. We are Exceptional!

    I'd feel better if our superiority meant more than just the world's biggest egos and blunders and military hardware. It is embarrassing to be involuntarily associated with the folks continually waving the We-are-Exceptional! flags when almost everything else about us is just average.
     
    RCO likes this.
  3. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    279
    1,855
    0
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    You are exceptional when it comes to being located between Mexico and Canada. No other country can do this quite so well.

    And I think you've got the most states of any country. Even India only has 29.
     
    RCO likes this.
  4. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,696
    11,318
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I work at a University and am appalled at the spelling and grammatical errors of my staff coworkers. I thought we were supposed to be good examples.
     
    RCO likes this.
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    109,076
    49,576
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    how can we be, when grammar is no longer taught in public schools?
     
    RCO and Prodigyplace like this.
  6. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,696
    11,318
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    There are alternatives.
    We homeschooled our sons. They got grammar and even calculus before finishing high school. One son has a Masters degree and the other has a Bachelors degree.
     
    RCO likes this.
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    109,076
    49,576
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    someone has to be home.
     
    RCO and Prodigyplace like this.
  8. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    279
    1,855
    0
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    At university in Britain, I did a subsidiary course (do Americans call it a "minor"?) in Japanese. A lot of my friends from my Chinese class did the same.

    Chinese grammar is pretty simple, but Japanese grammar, as I'm sure @pilotgrrl will testify, is pretty complicated.

    When the teachers were explaining the rules to us, many of my classmates were mystified. They didn't know what the subject or object of a sentence were; they didn't know the difference between active and passive verbs; they had minimal understanding of tenses.... I could go on. They'd never been taught this in their English lessons. Most of them could write English reasonably well - they were all pretty bright and were good at languages in general - but what they got right was down to instinct rather than to a fundamental understanding of how the English language works.

    Without understanding how your own language works, it is really very difficult to get your head around how a foreign language works, so this made Japanese grammar exceedingly hard for my friends. I was lucky: I had a proper grammar-Nazi for an English teacher, and he really instilled into us how the language works. He was a great teacher, actually: while he was very strong on the rules, he also made our lessons interesting and fun. So I was lucky enough to have had the grounding that my friends didn't have.

    In return for beer, I would hold remedial English grammar lessons for my friends in the pub. It solved the problem, but frankly, the education system shouldn't be relying on a drunk 19-year-old in the pub to fill the gaps led by schoolteachers.
     
    RCO, bwilson4web, Trollbait and 4 others like this.
  9. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    279
    1,855
    0
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I'm not sure I could do this. While it will no doubt astonish readers of my wonderful posts, there is actually some stuff that I don't know.

    Also, socialisation (no z!) is such a big part of school. How did you address this?
     
    RCO, Prodigyplace and pilotgrrl like this.
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    55,664
    38,777
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    None of the kids up here can read cursive any more. And their ability to print or write manually is atrocious. All of this may be a dying art, who knows.

    Full disclosure: I lost the ability to "write" decently, about 30~40 years back when I became a draftsman, my printing is the naz, but long hand: fugdaboutit. Maybe I should knuckle down, it is a nice skill.

    I did teach myself touch typing, with the help of a shareware course, maybe 15 years back.
     
    RCO, Prodigyplace and bisco like this.
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    109,076
    49,576
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    i'm thinking of taking up bagpiping in retirement. no need to write or speak, the bag says it all.
     
    #31 bisco, Nov 1, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2017
    RCO, Trollbait and Mendel Leisk like this.
  12. pilotgrrl

    pilotgrrl Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2017
    891
    1,796
    0
    Location:
    Chicagoan in TX
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    I learned more about English grammar when I studied German than I did in any English class. German grammar is fairly similar to Japanese grammar, so that helped.

    I've also been a proofreader and copy editor, so I'm a grammar cop.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    RCO and bisco like this.
  13. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    279
    1,855
    0
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Doesn't it say, "You might want to keep your distance as I'm about to make a terrible racket?"*


    *I can say this because I have Scottish parents.
     
    RCO, bisco and Mendel Leisk like this.
  14. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    279
    1,855
    0
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    German grammar is a nice way to learn about English grammar, and about grammar as a whole. Because the rules so consistent are, is it reassuring and comfortable.

    My wife is a grammar cop too. Some organisations are still willing to pay for it.
     
    RCO likes this.
  15. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    279
    1,855
    0
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Sometimes, spell-check just doesn't do the job.

    I may have told this story before, so please forgive me if I have: I did a search and couldn't find it, but it is one of my favourite "spell-check doesn't do the job" stories.

    One of my friends works for the State government in STD prevention. He's very good at it.

    He had to speak at a big conference overseas a couple of years ago. Now, in his field, when you talk about homosexual sex between men, you can't say the men involved are homosexual: it's not a political-correctness thing, just that when you're in a medical field, you have to make sure you encompass everyone who is affected by a particular issue so that you can address it effectively. In this case, he had to - as is common practice - use the term "men who have sex with men".

    The study he'd done was on preventing STD transmission among such men in rural New South Wales.

    He got up, and stood on the stage in front of hundreds of health professionals from around the world. His PowerPoint presentation came up on a big screen behind him. The title page said "Preventing STD Transmission Among Men Who Have Sex With Me In Rural New South Wales".

    Spell-check, of course, didn't catch the typo. He was exceedingly embarrassed.

    On the bright side, he said he didn't pay for a drink for the rest of the conference: people he didn't know would come up and buy him sympathy beers.
     
  16. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,696
    11,318
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    What is real world socialisation (apart from schools)? Does it involve intersection with a variety of people across age groups? The older and more knowledgeable mentoring the less mature?
    Is it like the the schools where people are in age segregated groups?
    I believe both my sons are excelling in the business world precisely because of their real world socialization without the artificial grouping of the school environment.

    One thing I like about PriusChat (when it is working), is the International interaction on items. Although I live in Virginia, I was raised in Canada. I also worked for a Swedish based company for a while. The International cultural perspective is very refreshing.
     
    #36 Prodigyplace, Nov 2, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
    RCO, hkmb and Mark57 like this.
  17. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,696
    11,318
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I still cannot touch type and I work using a computer keyboard for a living. I feel my typing skills are even worse on the newer touch-only keyboards on today’s mobile devices.
     
    RCO likes this.
  18. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,696
    11,318
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Being from Canada, I learned some French in school. It is interesting how the English grammar is somewhat backwards compared to many other languages. It is also very imprecise.
     
    pilotgrrl likes this.
  19. Mark57

    Mark57 2021 Tesla Model 3 LR AWD

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    2,945
    2,736
    0
    Location:
    OK
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    I was graduated from university in 79. In order to graduate, we all had to pass the JQE (junior qualifying exam) which consisted of your choice of a grammar test, or an essay. It was pass/fail, administered in person over a two hour period. If you didn't pass it your junior year, you could retake it your senior year. If you didn't pass it, you did not graduate, period. It was scary as hell for most except the English majors. I was fortunate to have had a lot of grammar all through grade school through my senior year. We'd been taught the model to write an essay.

    comparison-contrast-essay-2-728.jpg

    Once you knew this format, you could argue most anything even if you didn't know what you were talking about. I chose to write an essay because I was not as confident on my pure grammar skills. You had to make up your own topic on the fly within a subject range they chose, so I decided to compare and contrast Star Wars (released 1 year before) with another movie, Battlestar Galactica, that I had not yet seen.

    I used the essay model above, made my arguments, and passed. I gambled that the graders had not seen the other movie.

    They got rid of the JQE a few years later, citing that it was too hard and most other universities had already dumped it. And so the dumbing down of America began.
     
    RCO, pilotgrrl and Prodigyplace like this.
  20. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,696
    11,318
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    My non-college education was all in Canada. My wife majored in Education in college due to her bad educational experiences in the lower grades. We are among the more fortunate / blessed.
     
    Mark57 likes this.