Sign the petition to outlaw OPEC

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 11 2006, 02:40 PM) [snapback]284528[/snapback]</div>

If ever.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 11 2006, 02:40 PM) [snapback]284528[/snapback]</div>

I don't have a problem with petroleum, per se. I only have a problem with it being used as a liquid fuel source when there are entirely viable and cleaner and domestic sources of energy available. The use of petroleum for necessary chemicals, pharmaceuticals and plastics, especially those that are recyclable seems to me to be an appropriate on-going use for petroleum.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jul 6 2006, 07:51 AM) [snapback]281991[/snapback]</div>

Daniel - I totally appreciate the support... and I agree with the others that this is not really the case. There are MANY on this board who are doing as much as I am or more. I'm also not the only EV driver in this club (shhhh!).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Jul 6 2006, 08:49 AM) [snapback]282028[/snapback]</div>

Yes! Basically doing what is possible with the current tools we have.

And here I would like to point out that I consider my biggest accomplishment in the direction of getting us off of oil is NOT that I physically drive an EV that is powered from my solar array. It is the thousands of hours I spend disseminating information both directly and through my web site. Attending meetings and writing letters. Driving in parades and explaining the situation to interested bystanders. Giving interviews... Me driving one little EV is a drop in the bucket. Thousands of people who get even a little dose of what could be possible is worth so much more! Most people can't get do what I'm doing for some significant and obvious reasons. If enough people realize that it is possible.... well, that might actually get some change to happen! And that's why I spend the time and money to do what I do.

Aw crap. Teach me not to read down before replying. Thanks for the support!

Brings a tear to my eye. Seriously.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Jul 11 2006, 01:19 PM) [snapback]284567[/snapback]</div>

Very well said! oil is far too precious to be squandering on our personal vehicular transportation! We need it for far more important things for which we don't currently have alternatives. I should be stored for emergencies - not tossed out the window like so much trash.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Karnac @ Jul 11 2006, 10:32 AM) [snapback]284494[/snapback]</div>

According to all the rumors, it's the 2009 Prius that will have the improved mileage. That should go on the market near the end of calendar year 2008.

And Hydrogen is a boondoggle, promoted by the oil industry, so they can sell us hydrogen produced from fossil fuels!!!

And I'd have put that in bigger type if it was available.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jul 12 2006, 12:13 AM) [snapback]284822[/snapback]</div>

Thank you. I have replied in the past to well-meaning but misguided support of hydrogen as a substitute for petroleum. As I have industrial experiences with petrochemicals, gasses, etc, I can easily prove that the current methods to extract hydrogen are a complete sham that will use MORE energy.

Now Iceland is different, they have plentiful geothermal energy that can be used to produce H2.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Jul 12 2006, 06:59 AM) [snapback]284915[/snapback]</div>

Or they could use that geothermal energy to produce electricity, which they could use to drive EV's, if anybody built EV's, at a fraction of the cost of fuel-cell cars (which are a pipe-dream at this point, whereas EV's could be built today with today's technology.)

 

Yeah, hydrogen is probably a boondoggle. But you'll have to accept the fact that our government is going to throw a lot of our tax money that way and just give it to oil too.

But in the meantime, plenty of people are going to be working on their own (and in cooperative groups) developing better batteries, better solar....and better hybrids.

I think Toyota was right. (And I don't think they're going to waste a lot of their $ and R&D on hydrogen, what they're doing now is just for show.) I think Toyota is going to develop hybrids with better batteries, they're going to have an optional plug-in, then a standard plug-in, faster charging (did I mention better batteries?) etc.

And the market will take care of hydrogen.

What is the biggest "threat" to hydrogen? And the profits whoever (oil) will make (lose) from it? Someone developing something better in the mean time.

You've got a small percentage of people in hybrids now. The adventurous ones. While the general public is slowly moving to hybrids the adventurous ones will be buying the plug in option. While the general public is embracing the plug in options, the adventurous will be buying the EVs. Etc.

What we need is to break the chain of having to go someplace and pay to have something dispensed. That is why the push for hydrogen. Yes, swapping out charged battery modules or plugging in to a solar grove or whatever still dispenses electricity. But....that doesn't stop the Darells of the world from putting up their own solar and bypassing the system. It's not like I could install an oil refinery in my back yard and buy my own crude and make my own gas. But I can put solar panels on my roof.

I need cheaper and more efficient solar panels. They will come. I need appliances that use less electricity. They will come. I need an electric car. That is almost here.

The market will take care of hydrogen.

You know there's a lot of sun in the Middle East. You'd think they'd take advantage of that. If they were smart they'd be looking at leading the technology edge in solar (and batteries.)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 12 2006, 11:41 AM) [snapback]284974[/snapback]</div>

See what a beautiful thing free market capitalism is?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Jul 12 2006, 11:12 AM) [snapback]284998[/snapback]</div>

Never said it wasn't...for some things.

For others...it is dysfunctional, unhealthy or just plain wrong.

How much did you pay for your library card?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jul 12 2006, 09:58 AM) [snapback]284938[/snapback]</div>

I won't argue with that. Iceland could have immediate solutions with EV's.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jul 12 2006, 01:13 AM) [snapback]284822[/snapback]</div>

Daniel, I agree with your sentiments. However, another possiblity is that H2 is a boondoggle promoted by the oil industry to distract the masses into believing there is a magic bullet on the horizon, so in the meantime, just carry on with business as usual until it arrives.

Hydrogen does have some potential, but it is and will remian utterly useless until we develop renewable energy sources that can be used to produce it in massive quantities. Iceland already has those renewable energy sources, so it makes sense there.

My opinion on H2 is that we must undertake massive renewable energy projects first, using technologies that don't yet exist, and then MAYBE H2 will make some sense.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kingofgix @ Jul 12 2006, 02:33 PM) [snapback]285206[/snapback]</div>

I think you've basically re-stated my position, in somewhat different terms.

Certainly, there could be applications where H2 would be useful, if it were produced from renewables. But I think they would be fringe applications, where a massively expensive engine could be justified.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 12 2006, 12:23 PM) [snapback]285013[/snapback]</div>

And I don't recall saying anything against appropriate public services (especially educational resources), did I?

 

...because the market wants high MPG cars, hybrids will get better and better then alternatives will kick in, pollution will decrease substantially. We're getting there, they key is to keep gas prices high.

Now if we can keep the Japanese makers of the Prius from killing whales.... I got it...GM will begin making life-like artificial whales filled with synthetic whale oil, released near Japan, Japanese whalers chase them, harpoon them and are happy and real whales thrive.....way to go GM !

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jul 11 2006, 04:18 PM) [snapback]284608[/snapback]</div>

Gives new meaning to smug. It is only the EV owners who are helping reduce oil use? Of course, there is always someone who is doing more than you. Someone who walks and bikes uses even less resouces than a solar powered EV, considering no resouces needed to make solar cells. Riding the hard-wired electric subway uses far less energy than an EV. 1000 people on a subway train use far less energy than 1000 EVs. It's sad since I don't have an EV I can't be doing anything to reduce oil use. Of course, since we all own a Prius that uses gas, perhaps we shouldn't get too smug. Many of my neighbors don't own a car. Would getting an EV make them part of the solution, or part of the problem?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 10 2006, 07:41 PM) [snapback]284230[/snapback]</div>

Uhh, point of information:

Even if Bush loved Venezuela, remember that Venezuela is a part of OPEC.

In the new recently, Hugo Chavez cut off supplied to all CITGO (owned by Venezuela) outlets..

But you all knew this, right?

 

Citgo stopped promising to deliver to Citgo stations, since they were using more refined gas than Citgo produced, forcing Citgo to purchase additional on the spot market at much higher prices. Citgo will continue to refine and deliver the same amount of gas, they just changed their contract with the stations. It is of no concern to anyone EXCEPT Citgo station owners.

I doubt Hugo Chavez had anything to do with the decision, more likely an executive looking at the economics.