E85

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cheap! @ Jul 12 2006, 11:21 AM) [snapback]285006[/snapback]</div>

So, in other words, one should eat foods containing Vitamin A rather than mass quantities of Vitamin A with small amounts of food in it.

In the same way, the Prius is designed to run on gasoline, optionally with small quantities of ethanol (maximum 10%) in it, not on ethanol with gasoline mixed in it.

That is a proper analogy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cheap! @ Jul 12 2006, 11:21 AM) [snapback]285006[/snapback]</div>

If you truly realized your mistake, you wouldn't continue to try to blame it on Toyota. They worded the manual correctly, you misread it. Stop trying to play the victim.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Jul 12 2006, 11:24 AM) [snapback]285014[/snapback]</div>

Cheap's posting of his mistake isn't at issue. His stubborn insistence that it's really Toyota's flub-up rather than his prompted my reply.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Jul 12 2006, 11:26 AM) [snapback]284964[/snapback]</div>

Easy on the guy. I wouldn't have had the nads to post it here, if I had f'd up that bad. Now we know, so credit to cheap for asking for some help.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cheap! @ Jul 9 2006, 08:44 PM) [snapback]283628[/snapback]</div>

I seriously doubt that a single tank of E85 will permanently damage your Prius. The fuel system is already designed to use E10 which is not only common, but mandated in many parts of north america. So the mere presence of ethanol is not going to rot out your fuel system <my opinion, not a statement of fact>. The biggest danger, as I understand it, is from rust accumulating in your fuel tank (presumably from water evaporating out and then recondensing in the tank)....however, the Prius uses a fuel bladder so there is no danger there. Any other (non-stainless) steel lines in the fuel system are theoretically at risk, but again I seriously doubt a single tank of E85 will have any effect whatsoever.

 

CAN is Communications Access Network, a new protocol for OBD II. You can try any scan tool on the OBD II port (it won't hurt it) but unless the scan tool supports CAN, it won't work.

Nate

 

I agree that the manual should be more clear. From what its says I could put anything that was cleaner burning or whatever. But it also recommends unleaded and higher??? octane? I don't have the manual in from of me to check that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cheap! @ Jul 12 2006, 01:05 PM) [snapback]285076[/snapback]</div>

I've been quietly observing until now... since I have 117,000 miles experience with E10 in my two Prius already.

Clearly, the extended exposure to mild blends of ethanol is no big deal. In fact, there is actually a benefit besides the cleaner emissions. In cleans the inside of the fuel system, much like other fuel cleaners do.

As for that that comment above, read the manual. It already states blends greater than 10 percent are not supported.

The fact that "E85" has suddenly become a buzz-word does cause confusion. But the fact that E85 itself is not always 85 percent should too. It actually means "up to 85" in several respects. If ethanol supply is short, they will cut down to 60 percent yet still call it E85. And of course, the fact that you can mix it will pure gasoline anytime you want will reduce the percentage too.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Jul 12 2006, 08:26 AM) [snapback]284964[/snapback]</div>

:lol: Yours doesn't have the no go-cart tires sticker? I'm pretty sure that's part of the dealer prep. Better sue!

Yeah I agree that America is an over-litigious society (DON"T DRINK THE TONER, COFFEE IS HOT, etc.), but consumer goods are really cheap in the US compared to pretty much the rest of the world.

For example, here's what a base model Prius costs in $US:

USA 21,725
Canada 27,548
Australia 27,883
UK 26,828.44 + 5,792 tax
Germany 30,811
Sweden 35,013

 

Like John, I've been reading and not commenting. I want to now.

Thanks, Cheap!, for all the posting and details. It helps everyone who reads this thread. Some will just increase their smug cloud, others will learn about oxygenated fuel.

When you started this thread you had a picture because you were proud of using E85 and not having to wait in line for the "regular" gas and for helping reduce US foreign oil dependency. When you realized your mistake and began to panic, you edited your first post. Can you take another picture of your car? I really like your hubcaps and you say your milage improved with them. Maybe readers will learn something more from you!

 

You forgot the most important one. "Do Not Insert Curling Iron Into Any Bodily Orifice." I believe that it written on some curling iron boxes. Now who was the first one to call in to the manufacture about that one? :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jbreynolds @ Jul 12 2006, 09:52 AM) [snapback]285037[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cheap! @ Jul 12 2006, 11:05 AM) [snapback]285076[/snapback]</div>

I think you guys have beaten this to death. Everyone makes mistakes. Whether or not Cheap! takes full responsibility, or puts partial blame on the wording of the owner's manual is far less relevent than the true value of this thread i.e. possibly preventing others from making the same assumption.

 

I think Cheap said it best when he talked about one person reading something and seeing one thing and another reads the same information and sees something else.

Our eyes often do not see what is right in front of us, our minds will tell us it is something different. He has provided us, as have others, with a lot more information about E85 and our cars in general. Thank you for all the positive input.

 

This may surprise a few folks, but I can see how this could happen. I come down pretty hard on people that don't think (like Republicans, or people that believe cars can run on water) but in this case, Cheap went through a thought process and not unreasonably, arrived at the wrong conclusion. Cheap thought this through, consulted the manual, and made an informed (albeit wrong) decision. That could happen to any of us.

Nate

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Jul 12 2006, 12:24 PM) [snapback]285014[/snapback]</div>

Actually elude is just what they did. They didn't allude though.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mehrenst @ Jul 11 2006, 03:45 PM) [snapback]284553[/snapback]</div>

Be careful with Aviation fuel (avgas) It comes in three octane ratings 80, 100 and 120. They are color coded, and if I remember properly its Red(80), Blue(100) and Green(120). I definitely DO NOT recommend using avgas in your car. Theoretically, the 100 and 120 would not do any damage to the engine, but I expect the additive mix in avgas is different that that which is desirable in an automobile. In actual evidence, when I was stationed in Alaska, the flying club I belonged to used to fuel the club truck with 80 avgas. Within a year, the engine was shot and required filling the crankcase EVERY time you filled the gas tank. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER use a lower octane than is recommended by the engine manufacturer (in the Prius' case, thats 87), it WILL destroy the engine.

Higher octane just wastes your money with NO improvement in performance. Note, octane does NOT improve performance, it merely ALLOWS higher performance engines to be designed, but it is the design of the engine that dictates the octane requirements, not your desire for more oomph.

Dave H.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ Jul 12 2006, 02:03 PM) [snapback]285181[/snapback]</div>

Hey, I think that's a Cheap shot! :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(David H. Hawkins @ Jul 14 2006, 11:38 PM) [snapback]286618[/snapback]</div>

The octane rating for avgas is not derived from the same formula as car gas, so the numbers can't be used to compare.

I'll try not to get too pedantic here but...

Car gas pump octane rating is expressed by the (RON + MON)/2 formula, also known as the Anti-Knock Index. Avgas is the lean/rich demonstrated resistance to detonation.

If compared apples to apples, car gas should be reduced by about 5 to equal avgas.

Car gas that is pump rated at 87 octane is the same as 82UL avgas. It's actually the same stuff, from the same gas 'pool', but without the additives and alcohol.

Red avgas is actually 80/87. It is only slightly lower in terms of anti-knock than "regular" pump car gas (not 7 points). It is also not widely available compared to 100LL.

Blue avgas is now called 100LL (low lead), which ironically has more lead than 80/87. It is by far the most widely available aviation fuel for piston engines here in North America, and has a higher octane rating (actual) than any commercially available street-legal automobile gas.

Green avgas is actually called 100/130, and has the most lead of the commonly available grades.

The biggest reason for not putting it in the gas tank of a car is the lead content (which will destroy the catalytic converter).

I didn't really mean to go off on a rant here, but I've both flown airplanes and raced cars and bikes, so this is right up my alley.