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Red Triangle, P0a80 (2005 Gen 2, 110k miles)

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Metrolens, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. Metrolens

    Metrolens Member

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    Hi all. Welp, this morning my beloved 2005 Gen 2 with 110k miles, suddenly popped a Red Triangle out of nowhere. It was getting ~46 MPG city driving prior to today, and had been driving perfectly.

    I pulled a code from OBDII, came up with P0a80. Which is a dying hybrid battery, if I'm not mistaken. There is also a red warning icon on my Multi Function Display - a car with an exclamation point - which the manual tells me is indeed a hybrid battery fault.

    I also notice the battery charge level goes from one bar to full in around one minute. And then goes back down again. Obviously really weird behavior for the hybrid battery.

    So, is there a chance it's the 12v battery, or something else? Or is all this DEFINITELY a hybrid battery problem?

    How much would this repair run at a dealer (in Los Angeles)? How about if I do a third party repair/replace? I'm not car-repair saavy, at least not at this level, so someone else will have to do the repair.

    Thanks for any and all advice!
     
  2. SpaceCityHybrids

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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    sounds as close to definite as you can get. check the 12v for funsies, but be prepared for a new battery. check out @2k1Toaster 's battery thread, he has a good option. all the best!(y)
     
  4. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    New battery at dealer around $3000+, rebuilt battery $500 to $1500.
     
  5. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    There is a member here @2k1Toaster who is selling a battery kit for $1600 that is a third party alternative to buying a new battery from a dealer.
     
  6. Metrolens

    Metrolens Member

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    Thanks, I'm going to test the 12v now for thoroughness. Though it seems highly likely to be hybrid battery from all data and other voices here. Will post back with 12v results in a bit.
     
  7. Metrolens

    Metrolens Member

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    Ok, here are my 12v test results, per SpaceCityHybrid's procedure (linked to above):

    - Press “Vehicle Signal Check” - the battery voltage is shown and should be about 12.4 to 12.8 Volts (normal for an unloaded battery)
    RESULT: 12.1v. A little weak, but not drastic?

    - Again without brake pedal, press Power button and release to put a current load on the battery - the voltage should stay above 12.0V (if less than 12.0V the battery is not well, or there is a fault or unusual load somewhere)
    RESULT: 11.8 v. Again, a little weak, but perhaps not drastic?

    - Press brake pedal and press Power button once to enter "Ready" mode - the battery is now charging at about 14V (if less than 13.6V or more than 14.4 there may be a problem with the charging circuit)

    RESULT: 14.0v. Seems good.

    So, these results show the 12v is a little weak, but not drastically so. Which confirms that it is indeed the hybrid battery at issue, correct?

    Next question, how many miles should I safely be able to drive the car, to bring it somewhere for repair?

    Thanks again - and btw, as I'm sure we all know - this forum is amazing.
     
  8. SpaceCityHybrids

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    t
    The low initial reading indicates the 12v battery is failing. If you plan on keeping the car, you will need to replace it soon. When it actually fails, you will usually get a whole lot more codes and the car may have trouble starting.

    However, the fact that you are only getting a P0a80 is leading towards the traction battery being the culprit.

    If you drive the car long enough, a failing traction battery will provide another code(s) with the format P30XX identifying the bad modules. You will find he performance decrease, limp mode, etc.

    Best bet would be to reset the codes and see what happens.

    I have seen in SoCal rebuilt batteries for $500, but they have very little warranty. The best rebuilt batteries may get you 3 years of life, but the used battery stock is getting older and older and this is now the exception. If you plan on keeping the car long term, you should get a new one.
     
  9. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    A rebuilt battery is just a used failed battery with bad modules replaced with ones from another used battery. Even if it is properly serviced and balanced it will be an unknown, possibly short time before it fails again. A warranty is good but that means more downtime while the car is repaired again.
     
    #9 Prodigyplace, Nov 12, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
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  10. Metrolens

    Metrolens Member

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    Has anyone heard of Electron Automotive?
    Electron Automotive

    They offer up to 6 years warranty on their rebuilt batteries, and they do the install for free at their facility in Anaheim, which is ~50 miles from where I live. The total would be $2150, once the refundable core deposit is refunded to me.

    This might be the best solution here; assuming their warranty is good, I can reassess the existing options when their battery fails which they say is something like warranty +2 years. By then I would have 6-8 years more info and historical data about solutions such as 2kToaster's possibly very awesome product.

    Any thoughts on this?
     
  11. Ajourney101

    Ajourney101 Member

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    I bought a rebuilt battery for my second generation and the Hybrid battery has been refurbished with 3rd Generation cells. 3 years of unlimited miles parts and labor warranty. He was well worth what I paid to have three years of trouble-free service and I can sit there and watch the guy replace it in less than an hour

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  12. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Run AWAY!
    Seriously, you could get a battery kit of new cells from @2k1Toaster .
    A "remanufactured" or "rebuilt" battery is just a used failed battery that has had some modules replaced with used ones and balanced & tested. t could fail any time - 1 week, 1 month, 1 year, 1.5 years.Those first ones would mean more downtime for warranty replacement. The last one would mean having to buy another battery again.Some remanufactured battery warranties just cover parts.

    For a new $1600 ($1500 special now) kit see Prius Battery Replacement Kit (GenII/GenIII) with NEW custom cells | PriusChat
     
  13. Ajourney101

    Ajourney101 Member

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    Check and make sure that they offer a full warranty for 6 years and not a pro rated warranty

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  14. Metrolens

    Metrolens Member

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    Thanks Prodigyplace. I agree I like the concept of a brand new battery much better than any kind of rebuilt one. However, the 2k1Toaster batteries have only a 2 year warranty, are still basically an unknown to this forum (right?), and still require install I'm not going to attempt. So they are possibly perfect for some members here, but perhaps not for me.

    Most critically I need to hear how they perform from the geniuses here who will be better able to assess that than I ever would. They are still "early adopter" status, IMHO, but if they work as advertised, that will be revealed in the fullness of time and you can be sure 2k1Toaster is going to have a great situation on his hands. :)

    But, do you know anything specifically about Electron, beyond what you wrote here, that causes you to say "Run Away?"

    Thanks, yes indeed, more info is required about this warranty. What if they go out of business? Many questions that I will ask them - but they're closed on Sunday.
     
    #14 Metrolens, Nov 12, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
  15. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    So I went to their website and from what I gather (in the 5 minutes spent there) is that a 5 year warranty on a Gen2 battery will run $2749:eek:. Somehow they have higher “tiers” along with the higher warranty.

    If it were me I would consider the following:

    • Current mileage, cars condition and length of time you plan on keeping the car
    • Call Hybrid Pit or Avi’s Automotive and see if they would quote an install of 2k’s setup
    • Price compare
    • Get the fine print from Elecyron Automotive to understand what is in the warranty
    • Determine if you are ok with the time commitment required if you go down the Electron Automotive’s rebuilt battery.
    Good luck (y).
     
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  16. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    If you're going to spend over $2000, you should just get new from Toyota. The warranty shouldn't be your main focus here, a new battery with 1 year warranty will typically last 10 years. However a rebuilt with 6 years warranty can have multiple replacements during that time.

    A good example is with Dorman rebuilds that offer 3 years warranty, their products have been known to fail multiple times, right when you need the car most. It doesn't mean 3 years of trouble free driving.

    Your car is nearing 13 years old, you should expect other expensive things to fail on the car so probably not good to think 6 years out.

    With the lower mileage on your car, your best option is probably to fix your existing battery. Don't give up that battery for another rebuild that can have 300000+ miles on it.
     
    #16 JC91006, Nov 12, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
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  17. Metrolens

    Metrolens Member

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    Thanks - actually it is a 5 year warranty extension, so 6 years total warranty. And then you get $600 refunded from that total, hence $2150.
     
  18. Metrolens

    Metrolens Member

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    Thanks again JC. Very interesting and I do see your logic. The age of the car (12+ years) is why I balk at the new Toyota battery - it's a repair that essentially costs nearly as much as the KBB value of the car.

    But, how does one "fix" my current battery, without also replacing all the modules? My understanding is that refurbished modules would be necessary, given that simply swapping out my bad modules is a bad and temporary solution, since other modules which are also 12+ years old are bound to fail soon too. Or am I missing something here? You're saying that my 12+ year, 111k mile modules are likely healthier than what I might get from a place like Electron? And they could simply be restored to reliable operation?
     
  19. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Most likely scenario is that your battery has 1 or 2 bad modules, the rest should be pretty good since the car's mileage is not all that high and hasn't been cycled that many times. All you would need is to get good tested modules to replace the bad ones.

    You can buy the equipment to maintain that battery from hybrid automotive for $700 to $800. This equipment will charge and balance your battery pack. You can do this two or three times a year in your own garage.
     
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  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    interesting website, are you going to install it yourself? and remove it and reinstall it every time it fails under warranty?
    if that's the case, i would search long and hard for the cheapest new toyota battery i could find.
    one and done.
     
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