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N2

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by mr88cet, Nov 20, 2017.

  1. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    As with many cars it seems these days, our P.Prime came with its tires inflated with Nitrogen — I’m guessing a Gulf-States-Toyota-installed option. That along with a proud “N2” on the filler cap.

    Best I’ve been able to tell, the argument for inflating tires with pure nitrogen, instead of nearly 4/5 nitrogen, is that it doesn’t promote oxidation of the tire material, and that Nitrogen doesn’t leak through the tire material quite as easily and contains less moisture than air.

    Do any of these factors make any real difference “at home” — in a the context of regular cars? I don’t claim to be an expert on the topic, but it doesn’t seem likely that it would make any real-world difference.


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    #1 mr88cet, Nov 20, 2017
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  2. huskers

    huskers Senior Member

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    Does it make your voice sound funny?
     
    #2 huskers, Nov 20, 2017
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  3. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    You are thinking of Helium
     
    #3 Prodigyplace, Nov 20, 2017
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  4. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    If somebody advocates filling your tires, or lungs, with Hydrogen, I’d definitely say, “no, thanks.” (Well, actually, I’d say, “hell freaking no.”)

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    #4 mr88cet, Nov 20, 2017
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  5. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    If you get your tires at Costco they fill with Nitrogen at no extra cost.
    I would not want my lungs filled with Hydrogen or Nitrogen either.
     
    #5 Prodigyplace, Nov 20, 2017
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  6. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    It is a good thing to fill tires with N2 because N2 leaks 3 to 4X slower than O2. However, as you say air is 4/5 N2 so the effect goes down to about 33% slower leak rate, but that's a good thing. I would not pay extra for it, but I'd take it. I would refill with normal air if it was me, unless free N2 was available.

    That's the main advantage for passenger cars (trucks and race cars have other factors in favor of N2 including reduced flammability)

    By the way, it's great idea for car manufacturers to start people off with N2 in the tires. That would save a lot of petroleum due to better MPG (or electrons- MPGe!). The impact of N2 is important, but not quite important enough to make a law requring it. But filling new tires with N2 is a nice touch, recommended by many tire makers.
     
    #6 wjtracy, Nov 20, 2017
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  7. Deleted member 111882

    Deleted member 111882 Guest

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    N2 makes me sound like the locals, I know because we all have to breathe it in from 80% of our air :p
     
    #7 Deleted member 111882, Nov 20, 2017
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  8. huskers

    huskers Senior Member

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    I should have paid more attention in Chemistry class.

    (So if I fill my tires with Helium will I float around like the Jetsons?)
     
    #8 huskers, Nov 20, 2017
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  9. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    How does N2 improve MPG(e)? Just in that it reduces tire deflation rate?


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    #9 mr88cet, Nov 20, 2017
  10. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    N2 density is 3% lighter than air.
     
    #10 Prodigyplace, Nov 20, 2017
  11. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Hmmm... I certainly can’t claim to have “run the numbers,” but it seems unlikely that would make a much difference, realistically, even taking both linear and rotational inertia into account.


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    #11 mr88cet, Nov 20, 2017
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  12. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    That especially since regenerative braking lets reclaim some of that loss. (Well, mostly because it seems pretty small, but also...)

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    #12 mr88cet, Nov 20, 2017
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  13. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Low tire inflation increases rolling resistance and thus you need a little more fuel or electricity to go from Point A to Point B.
    If you are really fastidious about checking your tire inflation (like way better than me) then that would negate the benefit that N2 leaks more slowly than air.
     
    #13 wjtracy, Nov 20, 2017
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  14. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    From that perspective, yes, I would agree.

    I remember when I first got our 2009 (regular, of course) Prius, and I noticed the mileage going down. I was puzzled for a while, then it suddenly dawned on me how long it had been since I’d checked the tire pressure! “Like duuuuuuh!” I’ve been hawk-eying it ever since.

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    #14 mr88cet, Nov 20, 2017
  15. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    That is the only meaningful perspective. Now you have it!

    PS- When you think about it, if O2 diffuses so much faster, which it does, eventually with years your tire will have more N2 anyways, which is true. But when will tires lose pressure most rapidly? when they are new and totally filled with fresh air.
     
    #15 wjtracy, Nov 20, 2017
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  16. Prius Maximus

    Prius Maximus Senior Member

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    Don't forget when winter hits. Tires pressures drop in cold weather.
     
    #16 Prius Maximus, Nov 20, 2017
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  17. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Absolutely true N2 drops in pressure just like O2 or air with cold temps. Some do not understand that. If its me I am adding air at that point (not N2) as I am happy the tire has mostly N2 but I do not care about putting a tiny amount of O2 in there.
     
    #17 wjtracy, Nov 20, 2017
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  18. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    I think I recall it’s about a PSI per 10F.

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    #18 mr88cet, Nov 20, 2017
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  19. Prius Maximus

    Prius Maximus Senior Member

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    sounds about right. 80s+ in the summer to 20s in the winter, and if I don't watch it the pressures seem to drop about 5-8 PSI.
     
    #19 Prius Maximus, Nov 20, 2017
  20. Diemaster

    Diemaster Active Member

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    and going the other direction. Sulfur Hexafluoride
     
    #20 Diemaster, Nov 20, 2017
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