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Firebrid: The Prius v Powered Hybrid Convertible

Discussion in 'Prius v Technical Discussion' started by Bill the Engineer, Jul 4, 2017.

  1. MTL_hihy

    MTL_hihy Active Member

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    Never seen an oval tube roll bar, probably because it's weaker than round of similar diameter so nobody uses it (definitely not sanctioned for racing). Worst case you could fab it up from ovalized 4130 as long as you could get someone to bend it for you (requires special mandrels, both inner and outer).

    You can try to make your own oval tube from round tube but it's not as pretty as the factory oval stuff.
    http://www.jim-haubert.com/Flat-tubes.jpg

    Bit harder to find that tubing but you could try someone like these guys:
    Louisiana Steel | Welded and Seamless Oval Steel Tubing

    Bending flat oval tubing:

     
    #141 MTL_hihy, Dec 14, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
  2. Bill the Engineer

    Bill the Engineer Senior Member

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    I can GUARANTEE to you that I won't be racing the Firebrid after putting that much work into it. I am mostly interested in the mounting points for the shoulder belts, since a 1967 Firebird convertible is too old to have ever had them. That being said, the additional roll-over protection wouldn't hurt.

    In my career I have worked with a number of tube bending companies. If I need to design my own I will, but off-the-shelf would be better.

    Bill the Engineer
     
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  3. MTL_hihy

    MTL_hihy Active Member

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    I wasn't thinking you'd be racing it but mentioned it since that rollbar profile would be quite rare (if not custom) since all the other off the shelf stuff will likely be meant for racing (ie round tube). It will be good for lap belts but not sure how well it would really be for rollover without more bracing although it's certainly better than nothing on a convertible.
     
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  4. Bill the Engineer

    Bill the Engineer Senior Member

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    ...it's certainly better than nothing on a convertible.

    My thoughts exactly...

    Bill the Engineer
     
  5. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    Strikes me that for a roll bar hoop to be effective, it has to have some for and aft bracing. Strong enough to hold the entire weight of the car. And be attached to ultra strong mounting points. The whole idea is to hold your head off the pavement. If it folds even a little bit, so does your head.
     
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  6. Bill the Engineer

    Bill the Engineer Senior Member

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    As with everything on this project, there are trade-offs. The goal is to make the car safer than the original 1967 version while keeping as much of the original appearance as possible. The car will keep it's 1967 VIN and be titled as a Street Rod.

    Since it seems that I will need to design the bar myself, and there is no frame in the old sense under the car, I will design it to be as strong as possible. My background as a senior machine design engineer comes in handy for things like this.

    Bill the Engineer
     
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  7. MTL_hihy

    MTL_hihy Active Member

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    Just another thing to throw out there but make sure to do the math on the system you design if you are really going to attach seat belts to the roll bar because really you should have some fore/aft bracing due to the possible forces involved in a car crash (which could easily end up in several tons for both passenger and driver acting on that roll bar). Not sure how well that other one was designed in the photo you shared but make sure the bar is sufficiently thick (oval profile will actually be helpful in this situation due to direction of bending forces), attachments have at least a 6" x 6" x 1/4" 4130 plate to weld to (get good penetration on your welds) and that hopefully you can find a way to working in some bracing fore/aft (even if it's down low behind the trim panels).

    Example of plate attachments for roll bar on unibody cars:
    http://www.stangtv.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2012/06/white_falcon_011.jpg
     
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  8. Bill the Engineer

    Bill the Engineer Senior Member

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    Fortunately, I have plenty of structure to work with just aft of the passenger door.

    [​IMG]

    The Firebird Rocker Panels will be welded to the Prius v floor structure in that area. I can also run bracing back to the lower wheel wells and transverse gussets at the location of the future box for the traction battery under the rear seat. My biggest concern will be creating the proper shape to fit under the convertible top without interfering with its operation. Obviously, I love a challenge!

    Have a Merry!

    Bill the Engineer
     
  9. Bill the Engineer

    Bill the Engineer Senior Member

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    Santa was very good to me this year!

    [​IMG]

    Bill the Engineer
     
  10. egg_salad

    egg_salad Active Member

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    I'm not an engineer, but I can tell you there are lots of unibody convertibles with a single "rollover bar" that have shoulder belt mounting points on said bar. VW Cabriolet and PT Cruiser come instantly to mind.
     
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  11. Air_Boss

    Air_Boss Senior Member

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    Installing a rollbar is OP's opportunity to te it in to fore and aft structure, carrying static and dynamic loads, and stiffening the entire chassis.

    [​IMG]
     
    #151 Air_Boss, Dec 25, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
  12. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    He wants to keep it looking as stock as possible. That would ruin the convertible top down look.
     
  13. Air_Boss

    Air_Boss Senior Member

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    Understood, and I haven't followed this extensively, but convertibles already suffer from structural rigidity deficits and could use more bracing above the floor plane.
     
  14. Bill the Engineer

    Bill the Engineer Senior Member

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  15. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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  16. Bill the Engineer

    Bill the Engineer Senior Member

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  17. Bill the Engineer

    Bill the Engineer Senior Member

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    Rare 2-day January thaw in Ohio before temperatures snap back below freezing. What a cruel tease. C'mon Springtime! I want to get back out into the garage!

    [​IMG]

    Bill the Engineer
     
  18. Bill the Engineer

    Bill the Engineer Senior Member

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    Hybrid Drive.png

    Just goofing around with a sign maker while I wait for Spring to arrive...
     
  19. MTL_hihy

    MTL_hihy Active Member

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    How about messing with the spelling and call it "HYBIRD Drive" instead?!........it is a Firebird afterall. ;)
     
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  20. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    It should be HYBIRD drive on the FIREBRID It is no longer a Firebird.