Rough Engine Start? Knocking Noise At Startup? There May Be Hope Yet...

The resolving permanent fix should be a fix from Toyota, not us installing catch can.

Toyota needs to put out a recall to have gen 3s with this issue fixed by having owners take their Prius to Toyota dealerships and have them install catch cans at no charge. One of the reasons why I'll never buy a Toyota ever again.

 

Thanks to the catch can folks, there definitely an increasing body of evidence that a catch can mitigate Toyota's potential EGR design issues. However, I'm not sure the evidence is conclusive quite yet.

And yes, it certainly would be nice if Toyota would fess up to potential EGR design issues. However, don't count on it. Unfortunately, the issues that are emerging might tarnish the Prius's 'legendary reliability' status as these Gen3's age. Note that the Gen2's do not have these issues at all...because they don't have these 'external' EGR components.

Edit : See this post : Does my Prius have an EGR system? | Page 2 | PriusChat

 

They also changed the design slightly for Gen 4.

 

As an aside to the “catch can solves all” theory, I had our 2010 parked at the Oakland airport for 10 days.

Drove 35 miles at freeway speed to get to the airport. Come back 10 days later and had extreme knock for about a minute (worst I have ever heard).

Popped the hood prior to turning the engine on (just to see what 10 days looked like on the stick in the can) and pulled the oil catch can dipstick and there was 1/8 inch of material in there. I check this every Saturday and did so the day prior to leaving it at the airport.

So it may not solve all the ills of the design.

Just one observation and experience.

 

Humidity & temperature change over 10 days may have caused some condensation in the engine intake. That would fit in with @danlatu 's theories.

 

Very good information thanks for the share, hopefully Toyota is taking notes.

 

It is not a fix all for engine problems/knock due to injectors (dirty/clogged), fouled plugs, oil, water, fuel, bad coil, bad catch can design, coked rings, broken ring lands, dirty egr, coolant leak in cylinders etc. could all be causes for engine knock. Knock comes from detonation from high compression. The catch can prevents the majority of contaminant (oil/water/fuel) from entering the intake manifold and into the cylinders from the pcv. We have over 50k knock free miles between two different prii that have had oil catch cans in place. I empty ours every week regardless. I find more than 1/4 ~1/2 full of oil/water/fuel in my 2011 prius because I drive 500+ miles in a week @75~80 mph on the freeway/city mix driving. The 2010 has less than 1/4 full in 2 weeks do to less miles driven. I noticed that the hose going to the intake manifold had turned browning about 3k miles after installing the ruien occ, when I ripped apart my throttle body I found less than a teaspoon worth of oil/water/fuel in the intake plenum. I would like to have seen clean and dry. The ruien occ is trapping 90% +/- of the contaminant (maybe not the best design,I have modified mine) The 2010 has not had an egr cleaning but has had new spark plugs installed @ 105k (currently 118k). My 2011 has had egr system, intake plenum and entire engine rebuilt/cleaned (currently 308k) and both cars run fantastic. I know priuschat will be a buzz with knock problems due to the cold season and as time goes on with more members joining accumulating miles, there will be more talk about the infamous knock. I am here to share my experience with how it is working for myself and others who have posted in the occ thread. Toyota should fix this but since problems are happening outside of warranty, they probably just shrug there shoulders! Every car manufacturer has problems with the products they produce, nothing is perfect. I am still happy with what I have and can't believe my hv battery and trans are still working great with miles I have. I still prefer the 3rd gen over my 2nd gen prius anyday.

I am wondering ray if you have taken a peek inside the intake plenum to see how clean it is. I would also love to see what your plugs look like. I am just wondering if you can replicate the problem and do a teardown of spark plugs and intake plenum. I curious to know where the cause of your knock is? I also do not know the condition of your engine nor do I know the miles? I have not had either one of our prii sit for more than 2 days without driving them. I have another vehicle to drive and will let my prius sit for ten days.

 

I my self will not be buying another fossil fuel combustion powered car again. I will maintain what I got until the prices of electric cars go down.

 

Currently have 173 k miles on our 2010.

I have cleaned the egr cooler to intake manifold around the 120 k mile mark along with changing out the spark plugs. I will be bumping my 200 k miles service up to the end of next month at around 175 k miles.

This service will include:

• Trans axle drain and fill
• Egr cooler swap (I have a clean spare)
• Intake manifold cleaning
• Spark plug replacement
• Inverter pump replacement
• Inverter coolant replacement
• Engine water pump replacement
• Engine loop coolant replacement

So next month I’ll be able to share photographic results .

But our Prius never usually sits for more than 2 days normally. This was an anomaly, but still the worst I have experienced . This is not something I am looking to replicate.

I feed our engine a diet of Redline 5w-30 for the last 30 k miles. Prior to that it was various manufacturers of 5w-30 full synthetic. Our Prius consumes about a quart of oil every 10 k mile oil change. I also flush the engine every oil change with bg Products EPR before dumping the old oil and add BG Products MOA with the fresh oil to keep it basic longer and fend of the contaminants creating an acidic environment.

So I think my engine is in pretty good shape.

 

You can probably keep the plugs, only 50k on them

 

Agreed, but since I’ll be removing the windshield wiper cowling and plugs are inexpensive, I’ll swap em out.

 

Ray practices the "Mendel Method" of over-maintenance...

 

Are you the pot or the kettle? Cause you’re right there with me.

At least my amount of miles is reasonably respectable for the maintenance plan.

That’s what I tell myself anyway .

 

US schedule for the two coolant circuits is:



per this footnote:



(Canadian schedule adds inverter circuit change at 100K miles, fwiw.)

 

I'm gonna have to do something similar with this 128K mile 2012 Prius v wagon we recently purchased. Just discovered the previous owner operated it in an *extremely* dusty/dirty environment. I just changed the 12V battery and there was lots of grit and a fine coating of 'clingy dust/dirt' over everything in the battery compartment! Digging deeper, I noticed the area around the HV battery fan was also this way. Sure enough, I disassembled everything to get to the fan and that area was just as dirty. I removed the fan and disassembled / cleaned it. Looks great now! However, I should probably check inside the hybrid battery compartment sometime to see how dirty is. I will post pics of this in my 'new owner' thread on the Prius v main board.

Edit : Here is that post : Hi all, new Prius v owner | PriusChat

 

Clean everything you can reach and/or remove, then have at it with a leaf blower or compressed air.

 

IMHO, The recall will never happen unless it is emission related and NHTSA/CARB forces it. Engine blowing up after warranty is not a concern of big corporations unless it's killing people left and right.
2.) Toyota cannot just modify the emission without going through re-certification, recalls etc. and law suits so it's just cheaper to ignore it. We'll just have to deal with it ourselves.

Well, I did go out and bought a 2017 Volt when I got so mad with Prius blowing the head gasket. It's a bit small inside but we are really enjoying it.

 

You going to bring the Volt by or your working 2010 to the March 3rd meetup in Lafayette?

I’m hoping for the Prius .

 

Oh, I didn't know the meet is on March 3rd. I'll come by with Prius.

 

Just for the social aspects, or with some maintenance to perform.

It’ll be good to see you again.