Toyota Prius - Special Service Campaign (Steering Shaft Assembly Issue)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tumbleweed @ Jul 26 2006, 03:04 PM) [snapback]292790[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. One spline of 36 is 10 degrees, and one spline of 40 is 9 degrees. I'd like to hold the two parts in my hands to see exactly how they compare - pictures don't really cut it.

Here's a theory... the orientation of the splines on the intermediate shaft no. 2 may differ slightly between the new shafts and some of the old shafts (different production run). Only half of the cars included in the recall require replacement of the sliding yolk sub-assembly (the U-joint between shafts 2 and 1). The splines are to locate the bottom of shaft 2 and the U-joint. If the phasing of the splines on the new shaft is different from the old U-joint, the steering wheel will be off center by that amount. Of course, it could be the U-joint that's off a few degrees instead. Either way, half of the cars will have an off center steering wheel that can't be corrected by moving the shaft one spline. Like I said, only a theory at this point.

If that turned out to be the case, then you'd have to correct it at the tie-rods, and reset the center-point sensor.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tumbleweed @ Jul 26 2006, 03:04 PM) [snapback]292790[/snapback]</div>

This kind of stuff doesn't really bug me, but the fact that they put two scratches - right down to metal - on my car bugs the hell out of me!!

 

had the wife's car done today and it was a "first time right" job and also the HV computer flash and it was fine also. Went to pick up the car and the service writer says " the tech wants to see you " As I was in just as he was wrapping things up I hooked up the CAN-view and when he road tested it CV came on and he wanted to know all about it. Had three techs looking over my shoulder as I ran thru all it can do.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wilco @ Jul 28 2006, 10:46 AM) [snapback]293888[/snapback]</div>

I like your theory, I think that means I'm not going to let them do anything else until I have more information.

Sorry about the scratches, people can be so careless sometimes. It hasn't happened to my Prius yet but I had pretty much the same thing happen to me on another car a while back. Hope they can fix it good enough that you can't tell it happened.

FOR TMS USA: how about Wilco's theory? His steering wheel and mine both appear to be a half spline off. If it isn't that then what could it be, and how can we get it fixed?

 

for your information there is a splined shaft coupling on the top end of the intermediate shaft #2 and there is a splinded coupling on the top of shaft #1. So the possibility exists to have each out a tooth. Which would add up to approx 9 degrees. Just a thought.

 

I waited a week after having the recall done, to be sure, but a weeks worth of driving only confirmed what I knew as soon I drove the car off the dealer's lot. My car, like many others, now had an off center steering wheel. About 9 degrees as best as I could tell.
So I made an appointment for the this weekend to have it fixed and armed with the knowledge I'd garnered from reading these post I had high hopes of a good outcome.
An hour wait later and I was off, being told by the service rep. that mine indeed was one tooth (spline) off.
This time I didnt make out of the dealers lot when I realized it was now more than 30 degrees off to the left (the other direction).
I spun around and went back in to report my findings to the service manager (asst.) and after a few minutes he came back from his consultations with the mechanic and told me he had moved it just one tooth to cause this change. what is more that a perfectly centered steering wheel wouldn't be possible without a front end alignment.
I was reluctant at first but he assured me it was common to have to do this. They, Tony Divino Toyota, Had done this many times to fix the recall work they had done on quite a few Priuii.
I relented and a few minutes later they had it up on the rack.....about now I asked about VSC and power steering assist as they related to the center point and if they would reset this? "This car is smarter than you and me", he said. "It will adjust itself". Will it?
Once off the rack he came to tell he would personnally test our car and be sure it was perfect. Finally they did this. Third time is the charm. Or is it ? The steering is now centered but at what cost to the car down the road? None. I was assured by the service manager, but as for me. I'm a little worse for the wear.

 

For TMS USA please. More information is needed:

How can the steering wheel be off by less than 1 spline? There are about 40 splines on the shafts which means 9 degrees each, but my steering wheel, Wilco's, and others are off by half of that or less. How did this happen?

If the steering wheel being off center is fixed by adjusting the toe in/out alignment how does this effect the power steering center point and VSC centering? I have been told 1. it doesn't make any difference because it adjusts it's self (I have a hard time with that one) 2. You only have to adjust it if you make a really big change (but no one can say what a "really big change" is) and 3. If you adjust the toe to correct steering wheel alignment both these parameters need to be adjusted. What is the truth about these adjustments?

Toyota you guys have been pretty good about responding so how about some help with this. Am I hurting my car driving it around with the steering off center? If the steering wheel problem is fixed by adjusting the front end alignment but the other two adjustments (power steering and VSC) are not done will that cause problems?

I have an appointment to take my car in tomorrow (4th trip for this recall) and have the problem "fixed" but I think I am going to cancel it until I hear from you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mouztrpd @ Jul 30 2006, 10:13 AM) [snapback]294648[/snapback]</div>

Hmmm, interesting. If they were being straight with you (pardon the pun ) that would tend to support my theory that the old and new shafts have a slight variance in the orientation of the splines.

I don't have a shop manual, so I can't tell you what the center-point reset procedure is, but it is feasible that it will self adjust.

You don't need to worry, there won't be any cost to the car down the road. The front end alignment of a car is adjustable for precisely these types of things, i.e. modifications, and wear.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tumbleweed @ Jul 31 2006, 08:00 AM) [snapback]295085[/snapback]</div>

Frank's post got me thinking... while I still like my theory, he's right, it could be a combination of off splines. There are four points where the splines could be off: the sliding yolk on int. shaft 2, the top of the sub-assembly (U-joint) where it joins with int. shaft 2, the bottom of the sub-assembly where it joins int. shaft 1, and where int. shaft 1 connects to the steering rack. If any of these uses a different number of splines, you could have a situation where it was out by one spline clockwise at one point, and out one spline counter-clockwise at another. Let's say (for example) that one is a 30 tooth and one is a 40. That would be 12 - 9 = 3 degrees.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wilco @ Jul 31 2006, 10:45 AM) [snapback]295195[/snapback]</div>

Yes another good theory. We need to know how many splines there are on each end of each shaft they removed. Amazing how much trouble these guys can cause by not following the instructions.

I guess I'll call the service department and cancel my appointment for tomorrow and hope we hear something from Toyota. I hope they give us some kind of reply even if it's to say they don't know and are working on it.

 

both spline sets are disturbed only if the yoke and the shaft are replaced, and as stated earlier both are replaced in about 50% of recalled vehicles. you can find out if you had both replaced by checking your service record.

the spot where the sliding yoke attaches to int shaft 1 is the farthest point where anything gets disconnected- and this is splined. the next spot up where something is taken apart is the connection between the sliding yoke and int shaft 2. this connection cannot be messed up- it is not only keyed, but you can't put the bolt back into it unless it's put back exactly right. the third place is the spot that is disconnected on ALL of the recall jobs. this is at the top of int shaft 2 where the integrated yoke that is part of int shaft 2 connects to the stub out of the bottom of the steering column- this is splined as well.

this leaves 2 places where anything could be replaced differently than it was to begin with.

 

Thanks galaxee! That's exactly why I want to be able to hold the parts in my hands - to see what can and can't be messed up.

I've been driving it this way for ten days now, and it is really only slightly off (approx 4 degrees). When driving on the highway in a crosswind or on a sloped road, it's about centered. So my question is, how far off center was the steering wheel when your husband put it together the first time? It's easy for me to sit at work in front of a computer and theorize, but nothing beats observation.

 

mine was much farther off than 4 degrees after the original install. DH thought it was so far out he had better adjust it 2 splines... then it was way off the other way and he had to adjust it again. so i guess if it's off by one spline it's quite notable.

 

Thanks. I stopped by the dealer today on the way home, and they're going to fix the scratches, so that's good. As for the steering, they don't have any time this week, so it'll be next week. <_<

Hey, where in Wisconsin are you from? I lived in DePere when I was a kid.

 

I took my car in one more time to have the steering wheel centered. Things didn't go well, I now have an almost centered steering wheel and an out of alignment front end. I think they took the + toe out of it because it wanders a bit going down the road. Before it was pretty stable, at least for a a Prius. No one could even guess the state of the EPS and the VSC centering adjustments.

BTW where is Toyota (TMS USA) there have been several questions for them and they are not talking to us? I need to know the best way to recover from this, every time I take the car in it gets worse.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wilco @ Aug 3 2006, 01:14 AM) [snapback]296799[/snapback]</div>

i grew up in appleton, and have lots of family on the lakeshore. but my home and my heart will always be in la crosse :wub:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Aug 5 2006, 06:40 PM) [snapback]298473[/snapback]</div>

Appleton's just down the road, but La Crosse... never been there... is that on the Mississippi?

Yeah, I've still got family there too, in and around GB and up in Door County.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wilco @ Aug 7 2006, 05:26 PM) [snapback]299257[/snapback]</div>

well, it sure is a small world.

yep, la crosse is a beautiful little town nestled in the river bluffs, on the mighty miss.

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i only wish i had taken more pictures... never realized i was taking those views on the river and from the blufftops for granted till i moved to flat country covered in pine trees... meh.

 

I received my letter from Toyota Canada around 2 weeks ago. My Prius has been in the shop for about a week on that, the gas gage issue, and a bad driver front wheel bearing. I should have it back this Wednesday. I'll let everybody know if my steering wheel is crooked or not.

 

I drove my Dad's 2003 Buick LeSabre to my Toyota dealer to see how the repairs are going. They just received the driver front wheel bearing hub, but can't get to it until tomorrow. From what I could see though, the steering wheel is perfectly aligned. They did an alignment check too and all within spec.

I am a bit peeved that with the fuel tank issue, the new instrument cluster means my odometer was reset to 0. At my suggestion they put a dymo tape on the windscreen indicating the correct km's on the car. Now I can practice my basic math to determine my "real" odometer reading.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Aug 7 2006, 05:25 PM) [snapback]299281[/snapback]</div>

I think you meant to say "fah!"

 

Or as we say in Yiddish, "feh."

I thought resetting the odo at least to such a large degree was illegal! I lost 1400 miles off my odo when they did the fuel gauge TSB because when they ordered it from the factory they specified the mileage I had on my car at that time. Then I drove it for several days before the part came in, causing the discrepancy. Apparently it wasn't enough to bother with the nicities of accuracy, but I've been wondering about it ever since.