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Is Hybrid in 2015 Gen-3 Lithium Ion Or Ni-Metal? MPG Troubles?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by Susan4ET, May 21, 2018.

  1. Susan4ET

    Susan4ET Member

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    Okay, I give up. Car specs refer to Hybrid Battery but I would like to learn exactly what type that is. Thought it would be simple to learn but I keep ending up in the wrong locations apparently. Is it Nickel or Lithium in the 2015 then? Car is around 23,000 miles.

    If the Hybrid battery is having any troubles do the MPG fall off?

    It is May in Central Oregon and for some time I keep noting the MPG range city driving around 40 mpg. For 3 years now I don't think I have ever seen city driving close to 51. In fact, if I want to see higher mpg a 20 mile 70 mph max road trip always leaves the mpg up to around 43 maybe, only to see it settle back to around 40 mpg after returning to city driving.

    For various reasons (financial and styling options) I'm going to skip the Gen-4 and instead finance and pay off the 2015 long into the Gen-4 season--too bad.
     
  2. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    In the USA, 2015 Gen3 is NiMH except PiP plug-in is Li.
    2016 Gen4 depends on model
     
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  3. Susan4ET

    Susan4ET Member

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    Yes, I found it finally too... It is a Nickel-Metal Hydride battery! Thanks.
     
  4. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    In any case, your battery is probably fine, It probably has more to do with driving habits. For example, you would only expect 50 MPG after maybe 10 minutes warm up. So if your trips are short...that one big reason.

    Tire inflation is probably more important in city scenario where wind resistance in not taking over.
     
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  5. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    It would be amazing if your battery was that bad already.

    Look for:
    Late, hard braking (MAJOR mpg killer -- similar to throwing your wallet out the window); hard acceleration; low tire pressure, dragging brakes; weak auxiliary battery; heavy loads; short trips; dirty engine and/or cabin air filters.

    There is some really good material here on how to optimize driving for efficiency. Here's a good place to start. Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy | PriusChat
     
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  6. BZzap!

    BZzap! Senior Member

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    I know that you probably don’t want to hear it but after 3 yrs of consistently having 40 MPG average in- town sorta points to your driving habits, not the battery. I could be wrong but driving a Prius like a conventional gas powered car can lead to a less than desirable outcome, mileage wise. Throttle and brake management are very important. Other things like A/C and heater usage will significantly affect your mileage. Short trips can also be a factor. If the ICE doesn’t have a chance to come out of Open Loop (warm up period), the car will be in a state of constant rich fuel burn. All of the above factors relate to driving habits. I would suggest that you do some research on the Web about “hypermling” to help you maximize you fuel mileage. There are hundreds of site that deal with the subject.
     
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  7. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    And the driving techniques that hurt mileage in a hybrid will usually hurt a non-hybrid even more.
     
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Set the display to Hybrid System Indicator and, at least on level roads, try to keep the bar in the red hatched zone when accelerating.

    upload_2018-5-21_12-35-44.png

    Also, lifting off the gas will often shut the engine off, and if you gently apply the gas, keeping the bar to the left of median, it'll stay off.

    Keep an eye on the battery state of charge when doing this, protracted use of electric-only will start to run the battery down. Once it gets down to half-full, I try to switch to more pulse-and-glyde.

    Also, just keep a good following distance, abide by speed limits, coast up to slowdowns ahead, and so on.
     
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  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    your battery i fine. if you're expecting epa mpg's, you'd have to start with a fully warmed engine and follow their testing protocol.
    short in town runs from a cold start are a killer, but still much better than a gasser.
    the delta narrows in winter.
     
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  10. Susan4ET

    Susan4ET Member

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    Lots of short trips--for sure. Does the HUD (not this car but later) show the hybrid indicator system? It is a drag and somewhat distracting to be glancing at this indicator and the instant mileage bars. And traffic behind me doesn't like the slow acceleration one bit. And then I forget the practice and all I gained from hyper-miling and/or needing a new warmup is down the drain. My overall mpg over 3,000 miles is drum roll... 41.2 mpg. Call it normal and blame it on short trips, warming up, and poor hyper-miling, it is still a far cry from [oops s/b 51 not 52 mpg--from 2015 sticker], disappointing, and misleading. But I'm glad it is just me and nothing wrong with the car then.

    I assume the Gen-4 and Prime still require these constant hyper-miling techniques when one is hyper? The Prime would be sweet for short, no warmup, and no hyper-miling trips around town.
     
    #10 Susan4ET, May 21, 2018
    Last edited: May 21, 2018
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    4th gen is ~10% improved for mpg, judging from fuelly.

    That doesn't necessarily mean you need to jump on it, 3rd gen is no slouch, and low miles per months, it doesn't amount to much $'s diff.

    "Constant hypermiling" isn't as bad as it sounds: just abide by the limits, keep good following distance, take it easy and don't let tailgaters dictate your acceleration technique.

    Also: consolidating trips helps, maybe a block heater.
     
    #11 Mendel Leisk, May 21, 2018
    Last edited: May 21, 2018
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  12. BZzap!

    BZzap! Senior Member

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    Just about every day I make a short trip of about 2.8 miles, one way. From a cold start to my destination, I’ll be lucky to attain 38 MPG. Coming back on the return my average MPG will be anywhere from 68-78. So, why is this?
    Example:
    1 Engine is Into closed loop mode in a very short period. It’s already warmed.
    2 Terrain. Basically I’m on a gradual downhill return. Not much but a very slight altitude difference.
    3 Taking advantage of change in elevation by hypermiling.
    4 Lots of stop lights so timing them is important. Do not use brakes unless absolutely necessary.
    If you do the math that short round trip netted 53MPG
    Being mindful of you throttle and braking management certainly pays off. If you learn how to drive a Prius correctly, you can jump in any car and apply the same techniques and improve the fuel mileage significantly.
     
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  13. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    The HUD does show the HSI. It's configurable - you can show speed only, speed + HSI or OFF.

    41.2mpg is pretty good given your short trips. A non-hybrid would fare worse. A Gen 3 isn't rated at 52mpg (you're thinking Gen 4). Your 2015, adjusted for 2017 EPA ratings, is rated at 49mpg combined.
     
  14. Susan4ET

    Susan4ET Member

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    Oops, it is rated 51 mpg city 48 highway (not 52 city) from sticker. Kewl...my mpg highway always runs higher and 48 mpg isn't hard to reach--but climbing higher above 48 in the city means playing the hyper-miling game to the hilt or settling for dropping to around 41 mpg, which I'm willing to do, if there are no other troubles going on--and it doesn't look like there are any. So do you think 41 mpg city down from 51 mpg city EPA sounds about normal?

    Thanks for the insights on this. (It looks like I will be sticking around as a Gen-3 owner through the Gen-4 and current Prime offerings. I'm use to the Gen-3 interiors--just dislike the white exterior; but I hate the Gen-4 interiors and the ridiculous "sunroof" if you want a HUD--height of stupidity on Toyota's part there.)

    SCAN0101.JPG
     
    #14 Susan4ET, May 21, 2018
    Last edited: May 21, 2018
  15. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    The lady who owned the prius before I bought it had a lifetime of 42 mpg. Maint. records showed 5k OCIs including toyota fuel cleaner additive so I thought what the hell lets just see how it drive. Test drove it for 30 minutes, I was getting low 50s to low 60mpgs in the city. Since then those value hasn't changed after I purchased it.

    As it was already discussed earlier, drive to the MPH speed that you want, then foot off accelorater quickly and wait for the green "EV" to light up (center of HSI), push the accelerator so the progression bar going from left to right (when you press acccelorater down) is right above the word "CONS". When engine is fully warm with at least 2 or more bars charged and under 43 mph, car will only run electric motor only to propel car. Try this technique, it may take a couple of tries. Your MPG real time bars will go all the way up toward 99 MPGs.

    Let me know if you need any help with the process.
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    just to make sure the car is good, check your oil, pump up the tires, reset trip a, and go for a 20 mile drive out in the country on flattish 30 mph roads with few stops. if she doesn't return 50+, we can discuss possibilities.
     
  17. Susan4ET

    Susan4ET Member

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    Thanks, I've sort of discovered this recently...using the instant progression bar. Neat that you describe it here now. But this isn't hyper-miling or pulse 'n glide is it...at least not full on. In the "glide" part I just try to keep my speed up as long as I can with the bars above the 50 mpg mark. Must stay focussed or EV drops off or mpg drops below 50. Okay to play with but that's no way to just drive a car. ;)
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    glide is when you are applying no power and not regenning. difficult in gen 3, most try to apply just a hair of ev, or throw it in neutral.
     
  19. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    Long as you keep the pedal down with the bar hovering above near CONS, your speed will remain consistant on level flat road. It's not a technique that has a name tied to it that I know of here. I agree with you, pain in the arse to drive like that just to save gas and take eyes off traffic. It's the main reason why I went with the heads up display option, to not kill anyone just trying to maximze FE.
     
  20. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Yeah our original sticker is 51/48/50 mpg. It’s been revised for 2017 for comparison with other 2017 cars.

    If you’re telling me you have multiple short trips, that will hurt your mileage. It might be a touch low but it is within the realm of mpg if you’re only driving 3-5 miles at a time. For me, short trips in hilly terrain will net me 45mpg (short as in less than 5 miles per trip). It goes down in the winter. In flatter terrain, trips around 5-10 miles will give me 55-57 mpg in the summer.

    If you can drive to your furthest destination first to help the engine warm up (hopefully more than 10 miles away), that can help improve mpg. Reduce A/C load helps as well as parking in the shade or using a sunshade.

    As for highway, 50-55mph is the sweet spot. With cruise, I’ll get 50 mpg. WIth Super Highway Mode techniques, I got 62mpg (I posted my results in the Gen 3 FE forum)