1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Hawaii volcanics

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by tochatihu, May 4, 2018.

  1. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2006
    2,369
    978
    70
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, California
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    How much do they pay the cameraman?
     
  2. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Pay? Unknown. Volcanologists I know are rather frisky and enjoy being close to Pele even at unimpressive GS pay levels. Sadly not all survived until retirement.

    Recent news from the site includes a large ash discharge (Friday I think). Some folks who declined mandatory evacuation got helicoptered out yesterday.
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,751
    48,962
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    of course they did.
     
  4. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Of course they could. Youse can mount a rescue mission when only adversity is SO2 gas in air. Everybody wears respirators and jet engines can fly through that.

    If instead, situation were ~100 knot winds and zero visibility in rain, rescue could not.

    May be wasting my time swatting false equivalences.
     
  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Lava outflow has increased

    USGS: Volcano Hazards Program HVO Kilauea

    Still smaller compared to outflows in recent decades.

    This part of the island is getting bigger, and this is how it happens.

    Offshore megaslides and their megatsunamis are much rarer. Which is good for us, but they do show Pele is not so great at Civil Engineering.

    Only from a safe distance can I say such things :eek:
     
  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Current earthquake activity is around crater (where water is flashing to steam) rather than in rift zone where lava is leaking

    Latest Earthquakes

    (That is the main page. One needs to slew and expand to see Hawaii)
     
  7. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Area covered by fresh lava is getting larger faster:

    USGS: Volcano Hazards Program HVO Kilauea

    Has reached sea entry, which is how this island embiggens.

    Has reached geothermal generating station which seemingly will be shut down permanently (putting iron in access wells). Had provided 20% of island electricity.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,751
    48,962
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    idk which disasters are leading, natural or political.
     
  9. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    2018 repaving by Pele may have reached extent of 1955, IDK. Point being that this disaster recurs on human timescales.

    When everything cools off they'll return to thinking of that area as homesites I suppose. Wondering if buildings can be 'lava proofed' either by creating hills, or building atop concrete piers. Latter would need to survive thousands of earthquakes of ~mag 3 so that may be a dumb idea.

    Or just mobile homes. With wheels still attached, which I guess makes them trailers. When hot stuff comes, just drive to FEMA parking lot. Come back later.
     
  10. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,113
    10,043
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Not a single fatality this time, let alone a surprise massacre, so I'm highly reluctant to portray this as any sort of natural disaster when Madam Pele is just doing her natural ordinary island building.

    If something on the scale of the Hilina Slump suddenly lets loose without warning, then I'd switch tunes.
     
  11. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Lots of plain ol' forest fires burn down 50-sh buildings and more than a few cook people. We may lack a consistent definition of disaster.

    One thing seems certain: declaring a war on volcanoes seems like empty rhetoric.
     
  12. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,113
    10,043
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    When the fires are human-caused, it isn't a 'natural' disaster.

    And Madam Pele's lava crawled quite slow the first couple weeks, so it wasn't like things were calm and fine when people went to bed, and they were cooked before sunrise.
     
  13. Andyprius1

    Andyprius1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    2,327
    859
    1
    Location:
    Cool CA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    No toe dipping for me, the view is great from 6000 miles tho.
    Anybody ever use the toiletbowl at the beachside in Ohahu, that was nuts, of me, to do it.
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,751
    48,962
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
  15. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Groundhog Day.
     
    nednvermont likes this.
  16. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,313
    3,588
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    well I sure hope the volcano does not mess up our nice global CO2 data trend from near-by Mauna Loa....you'd think they might have picked a non-volcanic mountain for the measurements
     
  17. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,113
    10,043
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Measuring CO2 levels from the volcano at Mauna Loa

    "But how about gas from the volcano? It is true that volcanoes blow out CO2 from time to time and that this can interfere with the readings. Most of the time, though, the prevailing winds blow the volcanic gasses away from the observatory. But when the winds do sometimes blow from active vents towards the observatory, the influence from the volcano is obvious on the normally consistent records and any dubious readings can be easily spotted and edited out."
     
    wjtracy likes this.
  18. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Thanks to both for reiterating this call-and-response. It has come up repeatedly since Keeling chose that site in 1958. He already had years of experience with field sampling CO2 and understood pluses and minuses.

    No mid-ocean mountains that are not of volcanic origin come to mind. An even older, thoroughly extinct volcano (like Kauai on old end of chain) could have been chosen but it was not tall enough to 'see' troposphere consistently above boundary layer.
     
  19. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Kilauea eruptions over time have built and resurfaced Kilauea East Rift Zone (with total current area of 1500 km^2). Here a summary of how that has gone over time.

    1000-year time scale: 1.35 km^2 per year.
    200-year time scale: 1.45 km^2 per year.
    In 1955: 30 km^2.
    In 1960: 10 km^2.
    From 1969 to 1974: 21 km^2 per year.
    From 1983 to 2016: 4.4 km^2 per year.
    Since May 2018: 9 km^2.

    So if Pele persists, current action could be biggest in 6 decades, but we are not there yet.
     
  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,132
    15,392
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I remember seeing Iceland using pumped sea water to redirect lava flows. Of course there would be a problem with ground lines being fractured. Just I'm wondering if this might have been an option at the geo-energy plant?

    Bob Wilson