Israel Bombs 4 Story Residential Building

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Aug 3 2006, 02:51 PM) [snapback]297135[/snapback]</div>

There are approximately 25,000 jews living in Iran today. Hard to believe, but true. I don't know if they have a synagogue or not tho. From an article entitled "Jews in Iran":

Further:

What, what?!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Aug 3 2006, 11:56 AM) [snapback]297139[/snapback]</div>

This has nothing to do with discrimination against the Arabs. It is all due to archaic laws.

Marriage in Israel is within the exclusive jurisdiction of the religious authorities. It has been that way since the Ottoman Empire ruled the region and continued so through the British Mandate and independence. Each religious authority has its own set of rules. Any marriage which is performed by a recognized religious authority is recognized by the state. Couples who cannot find a clergy person from a state sanctioned religious authority to officiate at their wedding generally travel to Cyprus (all of 100-150 miles) to get married. That marriage is then recognized by the state and is recorded with the population registry.

I know, my cousin's daughter recently had to go through the process because she and her fiance chose to be married by a Conservative Rabbi; neither the Conservative nor the Reform Judaism movements are recognized by the state.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Aug 3 2006, 03:14 PM) [snapback]297161[/snapback]</div>

I never said it was discrimination against Arabs... it's descrimination against all other religions.

And if the law is so archaic, why not change it?

 

I am going to help you out a little bit.

Jewish Population in:
Syria: less than 100
Egypt: less than 100
Lebanon: less than 100
PA: 0
Iran: approx 20,000
Iraq: less than 100

so Israel, that little tiny country you despise so much(and are so worried about its marriage laws), has more arabs than almost all the arab countries combined have Jews?? What does this tell you??

Or is this good news to you?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Aug 3 2006, 03:52 PM) [snapback]297201[/snapback]</div>

Dude, you asked about Iran, and I answered.

Now have the courtesy to answer my question.

FYI: Where's turkey in your list?

Or how about some non arab countries? Japan? China?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vtie @ Aug 3 2006, 01:01 AM) [snapback]296836[/snapback]</div>

How about equal rights for their women? Enquiring minds would like to know.

Wildkow

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 3 2006, 03:59 PM) [snapback]297209[/snapback]</div>

How about equal rights for Christian women? Or does Pat Robertson's speech not count?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ Aug 3 2006, 07:55 AM) [snapback]296945[/snapback]</div>

I have not threatened anyone. On this board or otherwise and if I did please take it to the admin's and let them judge. I take exception to this and challenge you to show one threat I have made and if you can't as Lairmj couldn't when he accused me of lying and manipulating posts I demand an apology. Lairmj did not have the class of character to even respond, he just made the accusation much like the Far Left Liberals do when attacking Bush, our government and the USA. Cowards all of them. Otherwise IMO you are nothing but a Coward, terrorist sympathizer and an Anti-Semite. The only reason you feel intimidated by me is because of the morally vacant and reprehensible position you have taken as an excuser and sympathizer with people that commit terrorist acts, support terrorist acts, excuse terrorist acts or do nothing in the face of the terrorist. The Lebanese people could have at the very least informed Israel that Hezbollah was importing ten's of thousands of rockets into the area. Your acts and words are as morally bankrupt and useless as those of the UN. <_<

Wildkow

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Aug 3 2006, 11:56 AM) [snapback]297139[/snapback]</div>

Dude you made the accusation as well as a lot of others why don't you show us where the state of Israel does not recognize a marriage between Jews and non-Jews? And if why that is?

Wildkow

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Aug 3 2006, 01:05 PM) [snapback]297217[/snapback]</div>

Pat Robertson's speech has nothing to do with the right's of women outside of the Arab world. Now how about answering my question?

Wildkow

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Aug 3 2006, 08:37 PM) [snapback]297117[/snapback]</div>

I love to be at high altitude in the mountains as long as possible, thank you for asking. <_< That, or deep below the sea level.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Aug 3 2006, 08:37 PM) [snapback]297117[/snapback]</div>

Do you know the basic principle of every fair justice system: innocent until proven guilty? Every individual Arab man or woman has a chance and should be considered a perfect citizen, until you can prove the contrary. If you can't prove anything, that person is unguilty, regardless of race and religion. Of course, I know that things are not that easy if you are in the middle of a military action. Innocent people die, that's called collateral damage. But it should be avoided as much as possible. If aything, Israel should avoid it because it hurts their image.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Aug 3 2006, 08:37 PM) [snapback]297117[/snapback]</div>

Jeez. What fraction of the population you think has one or more children that are homocide bombers? That's way below 5%. What you are doing is demonizing a whole population because of the bad behaviour of a small minority. That's the fasted highway to hell.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Aug 3 2006, 08:37 PM) [snapback]297117[/snapback]</div>

Very simple: what kind of news sources do think you have if you only speak Arab? What do you think these sources are telling you for years continuously?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Aug 3 2006, 08:37 PM) [snapback]297117[/snapback]</div>

You should follow the news more closely. One of the strategies that Abbas is currently following to fight Hamas is to organise a referendum on this very topic. He and Hamas know very well that the answer will be way above 50%. There is no doubt about that. Hamas is actually scared like death by this path, because it would seriously hamper their freedom. As the elected government, they should in principle follow the outcome of such a referendum. Right now, this is the biggest weapon that is used against Hamas in Palestinian politics, steering them into the direction of some form of recognising Israel. The Palestinians elected Hamas for internal reasons, not for its agenda against Israel. Sad, but true. And shame on the western world for not having foreseen this. They should have made sure that the Fatah movement did more to rebuild the region and help the people.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Aug 3 2006, 08:37 PM) [snapback]297117[/snapback]</div>

Yes, Hamas not corrupt. And yes, they do a lot of social development work in Palestina: poor aid, education, you name it. It's a monster with two faces. I'm not defending it, I just give you objective reasons why the Palestinians voted for it. But why do you keep on discussing if you seem to miss some basic knowledge about this subject? Just in case you are still in doubt, some source that you will definetely appreciate:
http://www.tkb.org/Group.jsp?groupID=49
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/hamas.htm
http://lexicorient.com/cgi-bin/eo-direct.pl?hamas.htm

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Aug 3 2006, 08:37 PM) [snapback]297117[/snapback]</div>

How can I misread it? I heard someone describing a race (the Arabs) as morally inferior.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Aug 3 2006, 09:00 PM) [snapback]297144[/snapback]</div>

There isn't any racist statement that I don't deny. Let this be clear. And being against racism doesn't have anything to do with politics.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Aug 3 2006, 09:00 PM) [snapback]297144[/snapback]</div>

Catholisism has killed much more people during history than Islam has ever done. Nothing to be proud of, really.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 3 2006, 09:59 PM) [snapback]297209[/snapback]</div>

Before 1948, women did not have the right to vote in my country. And this is quite typical for most other western countries. So yes, we have this equal rights thing (or think we have) for the whole 58 years in all of our history. Ad now we feel we have the right to judge other civilisations as morally inferior because they are still on this path? And it sort of gives us the right to judge their life as less valuable? That's nothing short of hubris.

Yes, there are many countries in the world that need to proceed a longer way along this path than, say, the U.S. But that doesn't give you any right or priveledge against these countries. Definetely not the right to throw bombs at them.

Of course, I could ask you about equal rights of gay people, but somehow I feel that the point would not get through.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 3 2006, 04:31 PM) [snapback]297227[/snapback]</div>

Pakistan had a female prime minister not that long ago, did it not?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 3 2006, 04:31 PM) [snapback]297227[/snapback]</div>

Hah! That's exactly what I'm talking about. That's what you resort to... I look for truth no matter my connections... that doesn't mean I'm never wrong or unbiased (no one is!). The bolded statement is meaningless to me. You would like to think that, because it makes your side of things easier to manage (to yourself). It's a cliched statement. Keep saying that... it doesn't bother me one bit because it's just not true.

I want a source for that information... a valid one. I will demand the same level of proof that you demand of me. How did the Lebanese know that Hezbollah was importing rockets?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Aug 3 2006, 04:58 PM) [snapback]297267[/snapback]</div>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_Pakistan

If it's not too hard for some of your views, I suggest reading the following article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/5187008.stm

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ Aug 3 2006, 07:37 PM) [snapback]297355[/snapback]</div>

I was well aware of the fact that Benazir served as PM in the late 90s... I was just pointing it out for the masses.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Aug 3 2006, 07:39 PM) [snapback]297357[/snapback]</div>

I was doing you a favor, honestly .

IE showing everyone the link.

Cheers.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vtie @ Aug 3 2006, 01:47 PM) [snapback]297252[/snapback]</div>

You mention only the right to vote is that all these Arab women are denied? You attempt to deflect the actual plight of Arab women to just the issue of voting reveals a bias that says a lot about your character regarding these issues.

Which equal rights of gay people are you speaking of?

Funny how your argument tries to restrict the the issue of equal rights for Arab women to just one, voting, and then you try to push the issue of gay rights past the marriage issue into a much broader scope when it just does not exist.

Wildkow

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vtie @ Aug 3 2006, 01:32 PM) [snapback]297237[/snapback]</div>

Wrong, Wrong Wrong! Show me the facts to support this statement. <_<

Wildkow

 

Ohhhh I don't know Wildkow... maybe he was talking about marriage benefits that only heterosexuals get... but like vtie said, you're not going to understand it. I really pity people who don't have a mind of their own.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ Aug 3 2006, 06:36 PM) [snapback]297434[/snapback]</div>

Which marriage benefits are you referring too?

Wildkow

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 4 2006, 03:12 AM) [snapback]297413[/snapback]</div>

All I did was give you one example, to show that those "equal rights" only have been acquired very recently in history, even for the Western world. There are many other examples of course. And, even now, there are some more subtle mechanisms that still hamper women in their ambitions.
Yes, we can be happy and proud on what we achieved in this respect. But that doesn't give us any moral superiority over countries that are still along the path. Most Arab countries are making progress, except Iraq, where ironically the war has reversed the clock for women's rights.

There are many other examples. 140 years ago, there was still slavery in America. 50 years ago, Germany was actively working on killing all Jews. We shouldn't brag too loud about our moral superiority.

Morality is not something you are born with, it's something that has do be developed in a culture, a bit like science. And it takes a lot of time. We have come a long way and still have a long way to go. Yes, perhaps the western world is currently slightly further down the path of moral development. So what? That should only be an incentive to help other parts of the world.

In the past, there has always been a fruitful exchange of ideas between the western world and the Arab world, on any field, including moral and philosofy. They are not barbarians like some people seem to think these days. Heck, they gave us our numbers.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 4 2006, 03:12 AM) [snapback]297413[/snapback]</div>

OMG. Where to start? In fact, if you doubt this statement, the only thing I can recommend you is to start studying history a bit. Learn about the crusades. Horrible things happened then, they definetely weren't the romantic excursions as you see them in films. Learn about the inquisition in the Middle Ages. Everyone who had an opinion that differed slightly from the church had to die. Learn about colonialism. Learn about the unspeakable things Spain and the conquistadores have done in South and Middle America. They basically decimated the Indians. And then they have taken the freedom to import masses of slaves from Africa, and let them work and die in another continent. It all happened in the name of the church. And the moral justification for all this was that those people were "heathens", and hence inferior.
Believe me, whatever has been done in the name of Islam is peanuts compared to all this. The catholic church is nice and friendly these days, but they have come a very long way.


I'm getting bored with this whole discussion. What I will do is just re-summarise my point of view and then quit. You can do with it what you want.

* Israel is not the source of the problems in the Middle East. With it's leave-me-alone mentality, it advocates peaceful co-existence.

* The source of the problems are a small minority of extremists and terrorists, who are intolerant towards Israel. They hijack a large majority of tolerant civilians that want peace just as much as anyone else.

* The silent majority of people in countries like Lebanon and Palestina has been misleaded about the true face of terrorist organisations such as Hamas and Hezbollah.

* Targetted military action against terrorist organisations by Israel is justified and appropriate.

* The big problem is the extent of those actions, and the targetting. Colatteral damage should be avoided at all cost (although not always entirely possible). An Arab life is just as valuable as an American life. Destroying crucial civilian infrastructure such as power plants is wrong. Ultimate care should be taken that those countries are not further de-stabilised, because only the extremists benefit from this.

* The actions should stop as soon as reasonably possible, after which an international military control force should be deployed. A force that has the right to shoot and hunt terrorists.

* After the military actions, there should be a large Marshall-like plan to inject a lot of money in re-building the region, and give it an economical future. For example, Israel should play an active role in building an viable future for Palestina. It's in their own interest.

* Now that we are busy: the war in Iraq was the right idea, but the wrong target. The right idea in the sense that something should be done against proliferation of WMD and about terrorism. The wrong target because none of both was present or under development in Iraq. Right now, the U.S. has hundreds of thousands of troops tied into a long-term dirty mess. Troops that could be better used for other purposes. Countries like Iran form a much bigger threat. And of course, there is Pakistan. That's the real threat as far as nukes in extremists hands is concerned.

Interestingly, my point of view about the war in Lebanon doesn't differ that much from that of e.g. Dubya. Fortunately, it's mainly on irrelevant internet forums that people scream that Arabs are inferior and that they are all guilty and can be blasted away (or even nuked, like someone proposed on this forum). People with some vision on world politics know that weapons can't solve everything. Yes, the can achieve a certain goal, but they always have to be followed by structural changes if you want to change things on a long term. In contrast to what some people seem to think, the shape of world politics is determined around the table and not on a battlefield.

That's it. As I said, I won't continue this pointless discussion anymore.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 4 2006, 01:51 AM) [snapback]297531[/snapback]</div>

http://gaylife.about.com/cs/mentalhealth1/a/benefits.htm