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Seized caliper

Discussion in 'Prius c Technical Discussion' started by cyclopathic, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    Passenger side caliper seized on 3.5yo "C".. with only 60-odd+ miles. (Not the guides; the caliper piston would not retreat) Disappointed at Toyota's quality
     
    #1 cyclopathic, Oct 2, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    upload_2018-10-2_20-34-57.png

    1. The car is a prius c?

    2. What location?
    (Weather can be a factor, salted roads in winter.)

    3. And miles on the odometer is 60,000?

    4. Have you ever had a full brake inspection, either DIY or professional?

    5. Brake fluid ever replaced?
     
  3. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    OP says "C" was purchased new in 2015. Salt isn't a factor in the area had cars go 250-430k without any caliper failure. Sliders yes but not the caliper piston.

    On Prius C bracket sliders are fine. Brakes were never touched pads are 80% new. I pumped some fluid hoping it was air and it came out factory clean. The caliper dust seal looks intact but maybe some water was getting through and caused piston to stick.. will know more when replacement caliper comes. From what I can tell just defective caliper; if piston stuck due to rust? regardless dust seals should keep water out and prevent this from happening. Could be a scratch on piston.

    For defective caliper to get into car Toyota must have gone GM way to get lowest bidder and cut on QA.. and it is Japan made; disappointed
     
    #3 cyclopathic, Oct 3, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
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  4. ztanos

    ztanos All-around Geek!

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    Or... or perhaps... you just got a bad piece of equipment. It happens. Though, you are the first person in the 5+ years I've been a member to have ever mentioned a brake problem like this. It sucks that it happened to you, but outliers happen.
     
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  5. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    I googled it and there were similar cases on Yaris which uses exactly the same setup. I am guessing there weren't that many C sold yet and it is probably not that common issue. Just wish it didn't happen just outside of warranty.

    BTW OEM caliper is $300.. eff that I am getting rebuilt from rockauto.
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Is the piston plastic? I know our 3rd gen fronts are. Maybe they're swelling? That'd be disastrous for Toyota though, I'm thinking they must have tested that very thoroughly....
     
  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Or just go ahead and get the OEM rebuild kit ($39 list price, less from the dealers that sell discounted online, parts to rebuild two calipers), bring yours back to life, and in the process find out what went wrong, and post it here.

    I would reuse an OEM caliper with the rebuild kit in most cases before one from a third-party rebuilder, unless something really made the original one unrebuildable. Voice of experience....

    -Chap
     
  8. ztanos

    ztanos All-around Geek!

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    According to Wikipedia:
    As of January 2017, the Aqua/Prius c is the second most sold hybrid of Toyota Motor Corporation after the regular Prius, with 1,380,100 units sold worldwide.

    With the fact that we use our brakes much less than a typical Yaris, this could indeed be hiding the fact they are shitty, or it could be exacerbating the issue due to lack of use. It's hard to say. But with the fact that we have members with over 300k miles on their cars, we'd probably have heard of this issue before now, somewhere, if it were a prevalent problem.

    Maybe the hybrid setup takes some strain off the stock braking system?
     
  9. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    This is US based forum and I get feeling that it has mostly US members (it's not Aqua but Prius C forum afterall).

    Prius C was never a big seller in US if you check good car bad car numbers they sold about 20,000 units annually more at beginning less now. C/aqua doesn't really make sense in US as for a couple grand more you can get real Prius which has better MPG and more interior space.

    And 'merkans are overweight oversized human beings who don't leave in cramped cities where size of the car and available parking matters, our gasoline is cheap so it is hard to pick C over priced less Corolla.. just saying.

    With regards to the brakes the same caliper is used in Yaris and xD.. and it is a cost cutting setup. Nevermind rear drums and DOT3 fluid the front rotors are tiny very undersized for 2600lbs car I would not be surprised if taking C to mountain trip (and we don't have much on east coast) was a contributing factor. Perhaps they heated enough to suck water through the dust cap if they haven't used ceramic pads.
     
  10. Kenny94945

    Kenny94945 Active Member

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    Need more info.
    Caliper piston would not retract....during a brake change or while driving?

    Rebuild kit would be cost effective if the OP can DIY.
    FWIW I too would like to know the "root" (torn boot, salt damage etc.) of the failure.
     
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  11. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    It will not retract while driving, will bind and heat up rotor. MPG down to drain (effectively driving with one brake applied)

    Rebuild kit doesn't make sense economically; the rebuilt caliper is $36 USD.
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    did you ask toyota for goodwill warranty?
     
  13. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    Why? Car is clearly out of warranty and it is something which takes half an hour to get done don't need special tools. If it were $2400 inverter failure like on our 2010, I would ask.
     
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  14. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    That's what I used to think, before the quality of the cheap rebuilt I had bought forced me to go back and really compare them. (And the one I had bought was probably one or two tiers above any that sells for $36.)

    -Chap
     
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Doesn't hurt to ask: there might be a service bulletin regarding seizing pistons. The fronts on regular 3rd gen are some sort of high tech plastic: maybe they're problematic.
     
  16. Kenny94945

    Kenny94945 Active Member

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    Wow $36 dollars for a complete caliper....that's great/ awesome/ wow.
    I wouldn't rebuild either.
    Guess I am use to other manufacturer prices.
    I for one would still like to know the root issue.
     
  17. ztanos

    ztanos All-around Geek!

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    It may be a US based forum, but there are plenty of members from around the world. If a person with an aqua/PC, or even a Yaris Hybrid in Europe, found they had an issue... I'm pretty sure the first place they'd visit is the internet. Guess what one of the first places to pop up is... that's right. Priuschat.

    I bought the PC because it was not the ugly egg looking Prius and it was cheaper. I may not be the norm, but I'm sure there were others that bought for this reason.

    I've never seen a Corolla get 50+ mpg... so no, I never considered the Corolla. But then again, I'm 5'9 and 155 lbs, so I must fall into that fat 'murican category you so broadly stroked with. :whistle:

    I agree that the rotors are undersized, but that's because they are far less utilized thanks to the regen system. If you're heavy footed, that absolutely could have contributed. Probably a factory of being an overweight 'Murican.

    I did a search on da googles for Yaris and xD cars with a similar issue and I didn't see very many posts that specifically targeted the Yaris. Most were just how to unseize a caliper if sticking in all cars.

    Though, I did find an interesting one on ToyotaNation that mentioned that water could get into the fluid if it isn't changed per interval cycle. With the water in there, it can start to rust internal lines and create debris flake. This debris flake can cause the pistons to seize by getting into the travel of the piston and preventing it from compressing.

    Did the service department mention anything at your 55k service when they inspected your brake system? 60k miles isn't much, obviously, but I don't know the conditions the car has been through. You mentioned salt, but that it didn't contribute in other cars you've owned.

    In issues like this where it isn't a very common thing among the car (either because the car hasn't sold a lot, or because it's not a big issue), it's hard to determine what caused it. You've put the info online now, though, so if anybody else experiences this, they'll see it.
     
  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Toyota USA has no recommendation for brake fluid change. Toyota Canada says tri-yearly or 48K kms (30K miles), for all their vehicles, since maybe 2012. Honda Canada says tri-yearly, regardless of mileage, for all their vehicles, as long as I can remember.
     
  19. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    I'm 10lbs lighter than you, so my weight wasn't a problem.

    With regards to brakes being right size as they utilized less due to regen this is true until you get on stop and go freeways and into mountains.. then you find out that the small battery size limits charge rate and total capacity.. 5-700' elevation drop will stress brakes for sure; you'd better use engine braking.

    As to Prissy vs Corolla when you are single and have long commute than yes.. everyone else with family and friends to chaffer around has different point of view. Corolla is one of the best selling Toyota models.

    And as for service department.. no I don't take my cars to stealership and pay rediculos rates. Our 2010 Prius went 170k without needing any look at brakes, I was naive to expect similar from C
     
  20. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    You mean phenolic pistons? I talked to my mech and he's saying that in his experience they're as prone to failure as metal ones. Issue isn't with piston but caliper itself, a little bit of water and rust will expand and seize piston. He mentioned that you could temporary fix it by pushing piston all the way in and out a few times.
    They had more expensive $48 with anti-rust coating and phenolic pistons if you ever need. And yeah Toyota quoted me at $300 for new caliper.. can you believe it?
     
    #20 cyclopathic, Oct 5, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
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