1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

When standing still the engine stays off, it does not start to charge battery. It does while driving

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by MB31, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. MB31

    MB31 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    60
    11
    0
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    II
    While driving, depending on the situation, the engine charges the battery as it is supposed to do. However when standing still, for instance in a traffic jam or at a stop light the engine is off and stays off. Even if I have only one bar on the battery the engine does not start to charge the battery.

    This has been the case since June and I have driven around 8000 Kilometers since. It has only been a problem when using the AC in combination with a traffic jam. However winter is coming and I expect it will be a problem in normal conditions soon as well. Besides this I expect trouble when going on holiday (traffic jams while driving up mountains in freezing temperatures).

    Does anyone know why this could be happening or can anybody point me in the right direction?

    I have called my local Toyota dealer but they mentioned they would need the car for multiple days to troubleshoot and won’t make any promises. I have been in touch with them for a previous issue before and they do not seem to know the hybrid part of the car very well… I want to prevent having to spend a lot of money on troubleshooting if perhaps the fix would be to expensive for this car anyway…

    PS: other reason I am asking is a collision I had last week. I will soon get an offer from the insurance and am contemplating if I should keep the car and invest in repairs. I would like to keep it, but investing while there is an issue with the hybrid system may not be a good idea.
     
  2. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    10,096
    4,795
    0
    Location:
    Clearwater, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Sounds normal to me. That’s how my car acts. No engine no charge. And yes in stop and go it seems like it’s a problem with ac on as lots of times the car will be in one purple bar and engine on and off.

    Bottom line the car is not real unhappy because if it was it would throw some codes on the dash but you must be aware if it’s the original hybrid battery it’s very very tired and will not perform well. Your mileage is probably tanking and have poor power.
    So like every other poster here of late your probaby staring down the barrel for a new hybrid battery.
     
    #2 edthefox5, Oct 22, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
    srellim234 likes this.
  3. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    7,035
    2,780
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    When the display hits bottom, there still is about 20% charge in the battery.

    Unless and until it gets SO low that the car stops running, it is unlikely that this really is a problem.

    You could test it some place convenient......like your driveway......or the parking lot of the dealership.
     
  4. MB31

    MB31 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    60
    11
    0
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    II
    I am 100% sure that it did not behave like this in the past. Usually when the battery was only around 1/3 full (approx) the engine would start running and I could see the arrows on the display that it was charging the battery. It would stop doing so when it would be around 2/3 full and turn off the engine. I have had this happen daily many times at traffic lights, in traffic jams, driveway in winter, etc. during my 2 hour commute.

    Depending on the circumstances it can be difficult to get the battery charged. For instance leaving my house during rush hour in the city in winter could leave the battery purple for 15 minutes of start-stop traffic until I am on the freeway to get some charging done...

    It is good news to read that it is not bad for the battery but it is definitely different from normal for my car.
     
  5. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    10,096
    4,795
    0
    Location:
    Clearwater, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    You missed my point. If it’s the original hybrid battery it’s very old and very tired. So stop scratching your head and start thinking about what your going to do when that battery dies because it will.

    It will eventually light up the dash with codes and then your at the dealer mercy to pull and decode them.
    If you want to keep the car buy a hybrid battery capable obd scanner with Toyota techstream software.
    Lots of inexpensive choices.

    Use search forums button up top and search. Techstream.
     
  6. MB31

    MB31 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    60
    11
    0
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Thanks for you reply. I had the hybrid battery "revised" (is this an English word?) a little over a year ago. Faulty cells were replaced and after that it worked ok for some time.

    But I get your point, this still means it is old and tired. I have an obd scanner and use the torque app with it. I will take your advise and search the forum to see how a hybrid compatible one might help.

    The reason of this thread is for me to decide if I will invest in the car after the crash last weekend. I need a new door and some more repairing. I only want to spend the money if I have a decent change to drive the car for another year or preferably more (20.000 km a year). The car already has 270.000 km overall but part from the battery is in very good condition.

    But I get it, it is anyone's bet, it could stop today and could last another year...
     
    edthefox5 likes this.
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,474
    38,105
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Maybe 3rd gen is different, but if I've run the battery down to two bars, the engine will not shut-off, will continue to run. Conversely, if the engine's off, and I'm in some situation where the battery continues to be depleted, say crawling in a traffic jam, when it it hits two bars the engine will start running.
     
    fuzzy1 likes this.
  8. MB31

    MB31 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    60
    11
    0
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    II
    That is the same as it used to be with my gen 2, but it stopped doing that.

    I get Techstreams' response though, it is an old battery so perhaps that's causing it. The strange thing is that I did not see any change in millage which has me thinking that the battery is not that bad. But I don't have any technical knowledge of all of this :)
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  9. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    6,058
    5,783
    0
    Location:
    Columbia, SC
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    If your torque app shows a display of the battery SOC, you could check to see where the engine starts. Sit in your driveway, put the car in drive, force charge the battery by holding the brake and pressing the gas pedal. Watch the SOC % on your app and charge the HV battery to about 60-65%. You should be showing blue bars, but they may go green if you're on the high side of 65% and it turns on one of the top 2 bars.

    Then release the gas, the engine will turn off. Hold the brake and turn the AC on full blast. Watch the SOC on your app to see what the % reading is when the engine turns on. It should be about 42-43% when the engine starts. If you get below 40, you definitely have something unusual going on.
     
  10. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    7,035
    2,780
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    It's most often called "rebuilt" or "refurbished" over here.
    I hope you got a warranty longer than 12 months because............the experience of a LOT of people with rebuilt HV batteries is that they continue to fail again every 12 to 18 months as more of the original cells fail.
     
    #10 sam spade 2, Oct 22, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
  11. MB31

    MB31 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    60
    11
    0
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    II
    @TMR-JWAP just checked this but the Torque app doesnt offer this. But I can tell you that I already did this test in my driveway and the battery goes all the way into purple whithout starting the engine.

    @sam spade 2 I got a warranty of 3 months so I think they know this :(
     
  12. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    7,035
    2,780
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    And now YOU know it too.
    You would have known it before.......if you had visited here sooner.

    I'm guessing it is nearly time to kiss the old girl goodbye.
     
  13. MB31

    MB31 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    60
    11
    0
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Yes I know it won't live forever. But I did not see my current issue as a symptom of a dying battery as my mileage is still great and I have no other issues. The problem is not that it does not charge or empties fast, it's only that it wont start the engine to charge if I am not pressing the gas peddle. My assumption was that it could be a sensor or something to the likes
     
  14. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    7,035
    2,780
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    And it might still BE something else.
    In the absence of other symptoms, the HV battery is just a guess.
    Time will tell.

    And I KNOW that you have convinced yourself that it never did this before.......but mine absolutely DOES, often. So did my last one.

    And I ask once again......what happens if you just let it sit that way seemingly forever ?
    The engine MUST start at some point or it will just slowly die.
    Then I quit.

    My advice is: Don't panic unless and until things get worse.
    There IS a possibility that your memory has failed you.
     
  15. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    6,058
    5,783
    0
    Location:
    Columbia, SC
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    MB,

    You could download "Hybrid Assistant" app. It has the SOC display, along with actual amperage values of charge/discharge.

    I've had my car sometimes go down to one purple bar before the engine started, but it's not typical. I'm just curious if your "bars" match up to expected SOC. Typically, the display will show 2 purple bars when at ~43% SOC and that's where the engine starts. The engine doesn't necessarily start as soon as 3 blue bars change to 2 purple bars.

    Not sure if I'm being clear or not. When the car is stationary, and foot off the gas, the engine starts/stops based on SOC, not necessarily based on "bars". I just wonder if the "bars" and SOC are out of synch a little. I don't know if that could even happen, but one thing I've learned over the years is to never say "that's impossible"
     
  16. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    10,096
    4,795
    0
    Location:
    Clearwater, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Just turn on the ac the engine will start immediately.
     
    exstudent likes this.
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    when you say 'the engine doesn't come on' and you are stuck in traffic, do you have to get it towed?
     
  18. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    2,207
    897
    0
    Location:
    Torrance, CA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    The car is designed extremely well; near bullet proof. The engineers have thought of every single possibility.

    When the vehicle is NOT in motion (stopped or parked), the HV (High Voltage) battery will not charge. The engine will turn on AS NEEDED, determined by the various computers (aka ECU: Electronic Control Unit), to ensure that the HV battery does NOT get depleted/damaged.

    Just do as Ed says in Post #16. Car is stopped/parked. Engine is off. Turning on the AC will force make the engine come on periodically/continually, b/c the AC uses a lot of electricity, that is supplied by the HV battery.

    The Energy Monitor screen that shows the SOC (State of Charge) on the HV Battery, as it powers the electric motor or is getting recharged, only shows 40% of the battery's charge; probably by design. Full bars = 80%, 1bar=40%. As you can see, the SOC is misleading; this is not like your smartphone, that shows a more accurate battery life left. Toyota probably did this purposefully. 1 bar does not mean the battery is going to die and leave you stranded. Read if you want to see/understand more; are some very knowledgeable people: Full state of charge vs 80% | PriusChat

    Bottom line. Just drive the car.
    • When warning lights/codes pop-up, be concerned. Get the codes read, then report the codes here.
    • If you see the SOC make HUGE fluctuations, jumps between FULL and EMPTY, be concerned especially if you hear the HV battery fan in the back. This is what is usually reported and observed by people w/ failing HV battery pack. Also, MPG (kilometer per liter gas) will be reduced with a failing battery.
    • Keep the engine oil level at the FULL mark. Too many people have led their Prius to an early death this way.
     
    #18 exstudent, Oct 23, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
    edthefox5 likes this.
  19. MB31

    MB31 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    60
    11
    0
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Thank you @exstudent

    I have done this test with the AC a couple of months ago but I aborted the test when it went to purple and the engine still was not running.

    Thanks for your tip concerning the oil. I know it is about half way at the moment so I'll be sure to fill it up asap.

    Thanks for all the replies everybody, I'll just drive the car and see how long my battery keeps working.
     
  20. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    2,207
    897
    0
    Location:
    Torrance, CA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    I missed you had module(s) replaced in the HV battery. This is an unreliable repair as you now know. You are guaranteed future failures for obvious reason: the other modules in the HV Battery are 13 years old, and getting older. In the USA, we only get 8/10yr warranty (determined by the State) on the HV Battery. You got (2018-2005-1) about 12 years out of the original HV Battery. You should be happy.

    It seems you don't DIY. You should start making plans for a different car or a NEW HV Battery, if its cost effective and makes sense for you? In the USA, we can get the HV Battery for $1699.70; many will have to see if local dealers will price match, b/c they don't ship the HV Battery. Maybe you can get an OEM HV battery at a similar low price?