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Gen 1 tid bits

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by Marty2go, Oct 31, 2018.

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  1. Marty2go

    Marty2go Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
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    Location:
    Ohio
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Four Touring
    If you get P3190 no start after the car sits for a while the first thing to check is the air cond. clutch being rusted tight not letting it turn. It could be accompanied with a P3191 which is a companion code for generic no start. Cut the belt if you have to and try it.

    Power steering problems are usually no power at all or jerky steering. The no steering is usually the ground wire under the ps relay in the fuse box. Tedious fix but can be done. Th e other jerky steering is the sensors in the rack and pinion motor. You can change the rack but you have to droop the undercarriage. Big job but I had a rusted frame which wouldn't let me drop it so I removed the motor from the rack and replaced it. Very hard to get the bolts out of the motor from corrosion. If you just want to stop the jerking you can unplug the top (4wire) connector on the ps computer behind the glove box. You wont have power but it is drivable. I did this for 10000 miles and plugged it in again and the jerking was gone.

    P3006 and P3009 Battery leaking has a lot of reasons. The first to check would be to unhook one side of the pack and let it set for a few days. Check the voltage in each before and after letting it sit. I put duct tape on the cells and mark each one. If the voltage drops about 1 volt, that cel is loosing volts and is bad. There is a load test you can do but is less definitive. The third test is when disassembled you check the voltage from each terminal (plus and minus) to each bolt hole in the bottom. With the age of these batteries some actually leak full cell voltage 7.5V. Hopefully you can find cells that have less than 1 volt leaking to the bolt holes. If you cant find very many good ones you must take duct tape and put on the case where the cells bolt and not bolt them down. You can test for case voltage leak by probing one terminal on the pack and the other to the case. I have seen anywhere from 10v to 110v on this test. Be careful this will kill you.

    The picture of the battery is how I change one cell that is bad without taking the whole pack apart. The case is flexible and I Screw it to my bench and push down on the other end until I can get the cell out. For cleaning just a few cell while still in the pack I use a nylon rotary brush in a drill so it doesn't spark and I can clean a few spots. You can't use a wire brush at all.
     

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    #1 Marty2go, Oct 31, 2018
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  2. KarenA

    KarenA Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2016
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    Location:
    new york
    Vehicle:
    2003 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Very interesting -- thanks for the info.

    If voltages are even across the pack on a Freeze Frame report with no P3006, does that suggest that the P3009 leak is probably not internal to the battery? Or would you have to look for unevenness after letting the pack sit for a few days to make that conclusion? I'm asking for a friend :)
     
    #2 KarenA, Nov 1, 2018
  3. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
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    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    It's not really that simple ... there are two different things the word 'leak' can mean, and they both come up in talking about a Prius battery, so it's easy for things to get confusing. The P3009 is reporting a voltage "leak", that is, some conductive path that exists to the car body from some part of the HV system. As long as there is only one, this will not result in a cell losing charge ... it does not have volts "leaking out" like something in a bottle. The computer detects when a conductive path exists by putting an extra AC waveform onto the HV circuit and listening for it in the body grounds.

    Sometimes the conductive path is formed by a real, physical "leak" of the electrolyte goo leaking out of a module. It leaks out really slowly over years. What that has to do with the voltage "leak" is just that the track or puddle made by the goo will, of course, be electrically conductive.

    Now, if there are two leaks in the HV battery, or more than two, there will be a loop for current to flow around, and the modules involved in the loop will lose charge.

    Generally you want to act fast enough, when your ECU reports a first leak, so that you don't progress to two or more, because those conductive loops, depending on the conductivity of the path and how many modules apart, can lead to heat, smoke and/or flame.

    You may be able to save time finding a leak by measuring with a voltmeter to body ground from each end of the battery. If you think of the battery as roughly 274 volts "wide", you should get two readings that roughly add up to that, and where the split is should be about where the leak is. The math stops working that nicely if there's more than one leak. Also, the leak path(s) might be pretty high impedance, so the higher the impedance of your voltmeter, the less the math will be messed up by the meter itself.

    Remember, any time you are working on a battery that's had a voltage leak reported, take all your personal protection extra seriously. A battery without a leak can really only bite you from the places you expect; one with a leak can, from places you don't.

    -Chap
     
    #3 ChapmanF, Nov 2, 2018
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