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Module Capacities..I wouldn't believe it if it weren't sitting on my work bench....

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by TMR-JWAP, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    So I have a thousand or so modules of various vintages sitting on the shelf. Most are clamped in groups of 28 since they were removed from failed battery packs. Many had failed modules removed and replaced by similar year modules. Many have been previously tested and put on the shelf for future disassembly and parting out. (I've been a bit lax in the parting out area). Over the last several weeks, I've had a bit of time to start going back through them with the plan to hit ebay hard over the next several months to drop my module inventory. I have a set of 2006 Gen 2 modules on the bench right now that just finished their 4th discharge/charge cycle.

    This pack had been sitting in a stack of 5 packs for over 14 months.
    22 of them are coded 102H
    1 is coded 176H (this one is a POS and will go to the core stack)
    1 is coded 303H
    4 are coded 256H

    My setup uses (7) CQ3 4-channel chargers to cycle all 28 modules at the same time. I have the clamped modules sitting on a Gen 2 base plate with a Gen 2 cooling fan and duct to provide air flow/cooling. I use a Prolong System to run the fan. Discharge is performed first and is set for 1.5 amps down to 5.8 volts. 20 minute rest and then charge at 2 amps to 8200mAh or default delta V. I use 8200 because I just assume an 80% charge efficiency and it has worked very well for me. I usually do 2 cycles a day. Start one at 530 am before I go to work and then another around 530pm .

    So I connected up the 28 modules over the weekend and started the initial cycle. Later in the evening when I go to check on them I say...geez they're kinda warm. Not hot, just very warm. Oops, forgot to turn on the cooling fan.......

    The initial discharge showed an average capacity of 2278 mAh.
    Only 2 of them reached the 8200 charge goal, but averaged ~7700 mAh charged before hitting the delta V. I believe this was due to the cooling fan not running.
    The second cycle showed an average discharge capacity of 5308 and then recharge of 8173.
    The third cycle showed an average discharge capacity of 6496 and then recharge of 8186.
    The fourth cycle showed an average discharge capacity of 6597 and then recharge of 8200.

    I've done a lot of module testing. Everything from 2001 through the latest Gen 4 modules. I use the same settings on all of them...

    Never have I seen a 6597 average....and from a bunch of 2006 modules..........the lowest is 6305 and highest is 6953.

    I don't even know what to say...I'm going to let them sit overnight and do 2 more cycles starting tomorrow morning to see if they follow the normal trends I'm used to seeing.

    Any other "module hoarders" / testers out there that have seen similar?
     
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  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Is this good?
     
  3. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    The modules are rated for 6500mAh when factory new............
    Granted, most low mileage 2015 and 2016 modules test slightly higher than "rated" for me using my method.

    Typically, for a used Gen 2 pack (28 modules), I'll end up with a few that test better than 6000, with most scattered between 5300-5900 and of course, a few that are lower than 5300. And then there's always one or two that go to the core stack.
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yes?
     
  5. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Active Member

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    "This pack had been sitting in a stack of 5 packs for over 14 months.
    22 of them are coded 102H
    1 is coded 176H (this one is a POS and will go to the core stack)
    1 is coded 303H
    4 are coded 256H"

    Where are these code numbers on the modules? I have 2 2006 battery packs but the have numbers nothing like these and the original pack looks to have the numbers heat stamped in the plastic where the other pack has them printed in white lettering under the clamping bolts.
    Are there better coded modules than others?

    T1 Terry
     
  6. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    T1,

    Those codes ar the first 4 digits of the serial number on the top of the modules. First 2 digits are day of the month. Third digit is the month (1-9, x,y,z) and the fourth digit is the year. H=2006, I=2007, J=2008, K=2009, L=2010, etc.

    The gen 2 serial numbers are usually near the center of the module. If you have serial numbers that are actually under the crossbars of the clamp system, then you probably have a battery with modules much newer than 2006.
     
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  7. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Active Member

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    Hmmm...... the one out of the 2006 model I've recently removed is branded on the Toyota label as Panasonic EV Energy and the module part number starts with 22ZGEA, so 22nd day of December 2003?
    The one I bought from a vehicle dismantler who claimed it also came out of a 2006 model has the Genuine Toyota label but a different part number and branded Primenergy EV Pty Ltd. These have the numbers under the clamp bolts and I didn't want to remove them just so I could read the number.
    With a 7.5 amp load (a 240v jug element connected between the + and -) all the cells held roughly the same voltage although they did drop down the longer the test went on, but the reading on the last cell (negative end) matched the reading on the positive cell at the end of the test (dropped from 7.6v down to 6.5v by the end of the test). Within 5 mins all the cells were even and back to 7.6v. I only have a single hobby charger that I can program for NiMH cycle charging so it would take me a mth or more to do a cycling capacity test.
    I just noticed the battery computer that came with the replacement battery pack has a different part number, will I need to swap this over to the original one that came with the car as well?

    T1 Terry
     
  8. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    T1,

    G=2005

    If I remember correctly, Panasonic spun off their battery stuff and it became Primearth sometime during the Gen 3?

    Primearth EV Energy - WikiVisually

    Are you able to post a photo of the numbers that are partially under the cross bar? I'm thinking chances are good they're at least 2013 or newer .....you may have lucked into a warranty replacement battery. I would use the ECU that has the highest number in the last 3 digits of the part number. There are 070, 080, 090, 091, 092 models + some I've probably forgotten. The lower numbers are older versions. The higher numbers are just later years with whatever programming updates (etc) Toyo added. I think the 092 (or maybe 093) is the newest one and is used for any replacement.
     
    #8 TMR-JWAP, Jan 2, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
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  9. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Active Member

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    Unfortunately I've already fitted the battery back in the car and didn't record any of the numbers. I'll look at how hard it would be to get the lid back off if it will really help.
    The computer number on the replacement battery ends in 080 and the original I took out ends in 090, so the one I took out would be the more up to date unit?

    As far as it being a warranty replacement, that might be right because all the links etc look much newer than the one that came out.
    Maybe I'll leave the 080 computer in there until the 1 mth warranty runs out because it is marked with the same paint pen as the other bits in the unit so they can determine if any of the bits have been swapped out. They also tagged the compressing bolts so they'd know if the pack had been pulled apart.
    When I attempted to drive it yesterday it threw up the red triangle of death and would only select neutral, so I left it over night. This morning it still had the red triangle but the motor started up and I could select drive and reverse. I switched it off, waited 10 mins and tried again, all seems to fine now, no warnings at all.
    My wife says that is the basic rules of computer tech support, leave it a while and try again, if that doesn't work, shut down reboot and try step one again :lol:

    T1 Terry
     
  10. Ernest Erickson

    Ernest Erickson New Member

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    I would love to see your complete set up!
    As I stated in other topics, we are on Prius #1, so NO valuable information to share.
    I work in communications systems engineering, and battery management is a hot topic for me.
    This is something I would enjoy digging into.
    The drive system is of great interest, including the charging system.
    Eventually, I would like to build a 'cruiser', based on the drivetrain.
    No gal engine, full electric travel, with solar charging for the 12 V system.
    Since I have never seen the actual battery stack, this is of great interest to me, and the process used to charge them.

    Thank you for any information/insight you are willing to provide!

    73!
    A.E.C RADIO
    KA9UCE
    AZ.
     
  11. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Active Member

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    Reading through that linked article suggests that the company named Primearth EV Energy didn't start making the cells for Toyota until 2011, so it looks like I lucked in well.
    I've now sorted the bugs I think, mostly to do with an attempt to simplify the cabling to the 10kW aux battery pack charging and control. I test drove the Prius a few times, each time using the "Ice Kill" feature that allows the Prius to run in battery mode only and up till now, was limited to roughly 80km/h (50mph) Twice I switched off the link between the 10kW battery and the traction battery once all the green bars appeared in the touch display and then drove to see how far it would go before the last bars turned from blue to pink, then set so the Prius drove in mix mode so the genset could recharge the traction battery.
    The old pack would drop out within 1 km, this newer pack returned 2 km the first try and 4.5 kms the next time. This was 80km/h driving and hill climbing, not steep but a definite incline.
    Once I got the bugs out of the 10kW pack charging and control, I did a few test runs to make sure it was working, recharged and drove home and back to work today. Previously the round trip used18% of the 10kW battery capacity, this time it used only 5%. The charging transfer stays on for much longer periods now but the current transfer is lower, down from 120 amps up to 148 amps to 80 amps and 120 amps if I held the accelerator down. Top speed has climbed to 86km/h and would possibly go higher if the spot I tried it wasn't slightly up hill.
    Very pleased and thanks again for all your help TMR-JWAP

    T1 Terry
     
    #11 T1 Terry, Jan 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019