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Neutral Vs Glide

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy' started by darkecho, Aug 12, 2006.

  1. darkecho

    darkecho New Member

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    Gliding = coasting with no arrows, no drag, no ICE/EM....

    Neutral seems to have those same attributes, HOWEVER! I heard that regen braking doesnt work in N...

    is that the only difference? cause for those of us who get frusterated with trying to find that sweet spot, perhaps we could throw it into N and when we need to brake, we can put it back into D and start braking...


    why doesnt putting it into neutral at high speeds work? does the ICE still come on regardless of Drive or Neutral above 42mph???
     
  2. Karkus

    Karkus Junior Member

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    Yes, you're right...there is no regen braking in N, and I believe the ICE still has to turn above 42 mph.
    Supposedly there could be a (lubrication?) issue if you keep it in N too long (minutes?), so it's probably good to put it in D occasionally on really long downhills.

    I use N all the time without problems, although some people say it's dangerous (and illegal).
    I think the risk of looking at the screen to achieve glide is higher than the risk of being in N and needing unanticipated acceleration. However, anytime you might need VSC (like snow, rain, high speed corners), I wouldn't use N.







    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darkecho @ Aug 12 2006, 02:25 PM) [snapback]302273[/snapback]</div>
     
  3. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    [N] is a cheat for gliding.
    Before I could get the gliding consistantly, I would drop into [N] to simulate the benefits. However, all the things Karkus said are true. If you are on a newly paved straight-away at noon on a sunny day with no other traffic, have at it. As you change those variables use at your own risk.

    Because the ICE really does continue to run, it is not technically the same as gliding.
     
  4. darkecho

    darkecho New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Aug 18 2006, 02:10 PM) [snapback]305493[/snapback]</div>

    So N is identical to gliding except the engine keeps turning (albeit at a low rate) so because of the extra drag of the engine, you arent going to be able to acheive the same mileage as gliding....?
     
  5. kDB

    kDB New Member

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    also, below 42 mph if you use neutral while the ice is running, it seems like it wants to stay running a lot longer than if you were to glide. i also believe if the ice is not running below 42 mph, and you then put it in neutral and go above 42 mph, the ice won't spin up (someone would have to verify this with can-view).
    as for lubrication, i believe that's provided by the ice, and neutral or glide would not make a difference.

    so as long as you get the ice to shut off first below 42 mph, there should be no difference in the effect (except safety).
     
  6. Ray Moore

    Ray Moore Active Member

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    I probably use N more than anyone here. We have had long discussions about it in the past. I regularly get high 50s for mileage and my highest is 818 miles at 65.1 MPG through the regular use of N. I use it for about 15% of my total miles.

    As for warnings by others, I have decided to be the test case for the practice and can report that there has been no noticable problems for 57,000 miles so far and my wife has racked up 30,000 miles. I've been responsible for adding 11 prius to the roads besides mine and many of those drivers practice the same technique. I can't really say anything about the many grand prius that are on the road as a result of those 11.
     
  7. randreed

    randreed Same as it ever was . . .

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    I use N all the time since the discussion around long upgrades somewhere on here. Of course I use N for the other side of those long upgrades!
     
  8. narussian

    narussian New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Aug 18 2006, 02:10 PM) [snapback]305493[/snapback]</div>
    I think I am a little slow to understand the P&G technique as well as the use of Neutral. I think the only time I am in neutral is when I first power up. Could you please direct me to the earlier discussions about the use of Neutral. I did a search but couldn't come up with anything! Thanks!
     
  9. Ray Moore

    Ray Moore Active Member

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  10. darkecho

    darkecho New Member

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    Hmm can someone with CANview tell us the differences between N and Gliding? Particularly if the engine stays on, and how long...

    if N is sort of a more garunteed/less hassle version of glide, that might be the best route to go.. then just switch out of it if you want to brake.

    it would most definately be safer because instead of watching the MFD you have your eyes on the road..
     
  11. tomdeimos

    tomdeimos New Member

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    In neutral you can not charge the battery, and it will discharge some due to your normal electrical loads.

    In glide without arrows you are still powering those loads from the engine and charging or discharging the battery a bit. I can glide with no arrows easily, but with can view on current I can not hold it exactly at 0 or any other place for long.

    Since the electical load varies with AC fan speed etc, it is hard to know what current to try to hold. 0 amps means you aren't really coasting because you are generating power for the electrical loads.

    The no arrows just means power to the wheels from the battery is very low.
    But it won't be as low as neutral.

    True coasting requires holding something like -3 to - 6 amperes typically, so you are draining the battery to power the fans etc, and not adding drag. But like I say this varies when a fan speed changes or another pump turns on or off.
     
  12. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

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    I believe that in most states it is illegal to put a car in [N] to glide. Better check local laws could affect insurance in case of an accident.

    Wildkow
     
  13. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 21 2006, 09:46 AM) [snapback]306687[/snapback]</div>
    And I believe you're right and thanks for making that clear.
    It's one thing to look for methods to help improve mileage but when you've violated traffic laws you risk more than just low mileage. As I said above, I'm guilty of slipping into [N] and am not trying to be hypocritical. But Wildkow's right that we need to keep the law in perspective when we try things.
     
  14. narussian

    narussian New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Aug 21 2006, 12:32 PM) [snapback]306779[/snapback]</div>
    I definatly am not going to do something illegal just to improve mileage. I am well enough if I can simply understand Glide. When I speed up and then take my foot off the gas peddle I have blue arrows from the wheels to the battery. Apparently that is not Gliding? I thought blue arrows from the wheels to the battery were GOOD because that means you are charging your battery, no?

    Why would I want NO arrows to the battery?

    p.s. I am not a scientist, I am just a 32 year old female Prius driver that at one time knew how to change her own oil and unsuccessfully rebuild the carborator for my first car, a 1974 Toyota ?? (pea green and super sporty. All that beside the point, please explain in as preschool fashion as possible without mentioning amps or voltage(you can but I won'y get it)

    THANK YOU DEARLY!!!
     
  15. bweather

    bweather New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(narussian @ Aug 21 2006, 03:10 PM) [snapback]306920[/snapback]</div>

    If you are seeing blue arrows, I think most people on this board would call that "coasting" not "gliding". Gliding is moving with no arrows, as I understand it.

    Blue arrows are good in that you are getting energy back, but the energy has to come from somewhere. In this case, the energy is coming from your car's momentum. Basically, blue arrows means the system is using the regeneration to charge the battery. When it is doing that, it is slowing your car down, even if you aren't braking. It's like letting off the gas in a regular automatic; the car will start slowing down because of the engine compression.

    Gliding, then, is holding the accelerator such that you don't have any arrows. This means the car is still moving forward, but the regenerative system isn't eating your speed to charge the battery. You can drift along further than you would with the blue arrows showing.

    Did I make any sense?
     
  16. narussian

    narussian New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Prince of Jupiter @ Aug 21 2006, 04:02 PM) [snapback]306983[/snapback]</div>

    Coasting - No brake, no gas with blue arrows from wheels to battery - battery regeneration via energy from cars momemtum (some Drag)

    Gliding - Gas pedal with NO arrows of any kind/color (no Drag)

    Neutral - No brake, no gas, Neutral transmission, No arrows (No Drag)----ILLEGAL and DANGEROUS!!

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Prince of Jupiter @ Aug 21 2006, 04:02 PM) [snapback]306983[/snapback]</div>
    If what I said above is correct you made tons of sense! Thank you!!!

    How's the OK heat, I know we are frying down here in Texas and AC HURTS the mpg, hopefully the winter will be easier on it.
     
  17. bweather

    bweather New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(narussian @ Aug 22 2006, 07:21 AM) [snapback]307404[/snapback]</div>
    You've got it! I'm glad that helped.

    Ugh. I hate being hot, so I'm really ready for winter. It's pretty humid here lately, but I don't think it's as bad as the heat you've been having in Dallas. I need to move further north. :) We actually had a high in the 80s yesterday, though. It was a nice break.
     
  18. darkecho

    darkecho New Member

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    on top of all that, doesnt neutral keep the enging in an idling condition as well? making it less efficient as gliding (where the motor can shutoff)?
     
  19. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    Really. . . :wub: Just the kind of woman I've been looking for all last hour.

    In a simple way:
    When your engine is running, you're consuming gas.
    When you are Stealthing, you are consuming battery.
    When you are Gliding, you are consuming neither.

    And yes, as mentioned, [N] does not turn the engine off so you are consuming gas.
    The overall goal is to consume the least amount of gasoline required to get from point A to point B (or my house if you're a 32 year-old female Prius owner). Stealthing is good because you're not consuming gas; Gliding is better. Gliding is always better.
     
  20. Ray Moore

    Ray Moore Active Member

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    If the car is warmed up, the engine will not be on when in N.