1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Mysterious misfire ONLY when low HV battery, but No DTC’s

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Baz2473, Jan 23, 2019.

  1. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,723
    38,253
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    $200+ price tag too. (y)
     
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  2. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    11,251
    15,476
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I’d salvage yard it for that price ;).

    But definitely not cheap if an error in handling occurs(y).
     
    #42 Raytheeagle, Feb 10, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  3. Baz2473

    Baz2473 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    37
    16
    0
    Location:
    Kent. England.
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Go to the Engine and ECT Live tab then at the top click on Monitors. Then once loaded. If it says completed click on EGR FLOW INSUFFICIENCY. This will show your result for the EGR Flow.
    The MAP readings are on the live data tab.
     

    Attached Files:

    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  4. Baz2473

    Baz2473 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    37
    16
    0
    Location:
    Kent. England.
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    The test on the EGR valve / MAP sensor is slightly more complex.
    First you must start the car in maintenance mode. “The pedal dance” then let the coolant temp rise to at least 75°C.
    Once this is done enter the engine ECT tab. Then click the active tests tab.
    In the new list that appears you’ll see something like “test egr stepper motor”. Select this then if all criteria are met you’ll be able to test the EGR stepper motor inside the valve.

    Make sure to have the MAP sensor readings displayed in the live view then monitor the MAP value. Whatever it is reading during idle with the stepper motor on 0 steps, this will be your base figure, then open the stepper motor (no more than 30 steps & for no longer than 10 seconds)
    when the stepper is opened the engine should go into a rough idle and the MAP value should increase by at least 10kpa. (You can change the unit value for air pressure in the Techstream settings from psi to kpa)
    If it doesnt rise by at least 10kpa then apparently this would indicate a problem with the egr valve/motor. Or the MAP sensor?

    When I do this test it is only rising by 1kpa.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  5. Baz2473

    Baz2473 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    37
    16
    0
    Location:
    Kent. England.
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Am currently looking into the fact that the fuel injector for this cylinder may be faulty, I’m assuming the oily buildup would have been in all of them if the injectors were all faulty. After all, the gunk that used to get thrown into the intake via the PCV valve wouldn’t only go into plenum number 2. So I’ve switched injector number 2 for injector number 1 and am planning on checking the condition of the intake plenums next time I remove the intake to clean it again in I reckon no more than 1000 miles...
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  6. Baz2473

    Baz2473 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    37
    16
    0
    Location:
    Kent. England.
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Strangely there is no oil consumption which is why I think the buildup in plenum 2 is from the PCV valve. (I now use a catch can so hopefully the buildup should stop in there now)

    I only wipe the external cage of the MAP sensor. Doesn’t look like you could even wipe anything else if you wanted to?

    I’m also very weary of touching expensive sensors!

    The only thing I’m concerned about with the readings on Techstream are the MAP sensor readings when I run the EGR stepper motor test. Apparently it should increase the reading by at least 10kpa. Mine goes up by 2kpa. Yet the readings for testing the MAP sensor seem within the normal range of between 80 & 110kpa when engine switched off and below 80kpa with engine running.
    With the engine in an idle state it reads 30kpa. Then when the EGR stepper is opened to 29 steps it only goes up to 32kpa. ?
     
  7. Tiff

    Tiff Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2018
    86
    20
    0
    Location:
    Crawley
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Ok will try that tonight.

    I did manage to find out what was wrong with torque not working properly. My adapter was no good so ordered a pan long one which ia good.
    Ok so this morning i had a p0443 code repeatedly which is evao system purge valve. But looking in here pointed to fuel filler cap. Undid it and done it up again no sign again. So don't quite understand what that was
    But somehow my mpg's have returned to 55mpg up from 45mpg. The car runs absolutely fine when on straights. Whsn stuck in traffic or standing and charging it just sounds like a bag of nails. It also has low rpms.
    Oil catch can to be delivered today so will see.
    Im beginning to think more injector line now as egr cap removal makes no difference either.
     
  8. Salumi

    Salumi Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2019
    9
    0
    0
    Location:
    London
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    ----UK----

    Hehehe
    Hybrid Battry is going to go that’s it
    You will see the light shown up on the dashboard about hybrid battery in few weeks or months depend on drive
     
  9. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2016
    1,107
    1,311
    12
    Location:
    Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Could this be stuck piston rings or leaky valve seal causing loss of compression (misfire) and sucking oil (misfire, oil) into cylinder 2? The Atkinson cycle on the Prius does kick back part of the a/f mixture into the intake manifold.

    You could try a piston soak and/or compression test.

    Pixel XL ?
     
  10. Tiff

    Tiff Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2018
    86
    20
    0
    Location:
    Crawley
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Thanks guys.
    I thought i nearly had it when i found spark plug in cylinder 1 loose and the insulator badly burnt. So i bought a new plug last night hoping all would be ok. Re torqued all the others as well but the engine is still banging away. The annoying this is that it is intermittent. So now gonna change all the other plufs just in case. But reall confused. Coils look good as well
     
  11. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    16,470
    8,383
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Change the burnt insulator?
     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,723
    38,253
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Insulator is part of the plug.
     
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  13. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    16,470
    8,383
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Oh I was thinking the coil, I've seen those burnt
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  14. Baz2473

    Baz2473 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    37
    16
    0
    Location:
    Kent. England.
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Ok so following advice from here I’ve proceeded to do a block test and a compression test.

    Block test results... Conclusive, c02 is in the expansion tank...

    Compression test results slightly strange.
    According to Toyota repair manual. Normal compression should be 199psi or above.

    Cylinder 1 was 139psi.
    Cylinder 2 was 130psi.
    Cylinder 3 was 130psi.
    Cylinder 4 was 130psi.

    So armed with that information I decided to go ahead with removing the head.

    Results of Cylinder head pressure test will follow when I get it back from the machine shop.

    Head gasket looked like it could have been leaking a very slight amount of water from the water jacket around cylinder 2 directly into the cylinder.
     

    Attached Files:

    mjoo and Mendel Leisk like this.
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,723
    38,253
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Wow, how long did it take to dig down?

    I can never remember: which is cylinder #1? Left end as you stand at the front of the vehicle?

    Must watch video:



    (They seem to be rushing, don't even clean dirt off the valve cover for example. But still a lot of good tips.)
     
    #55 Mendel Leisk, Feb 16, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  16. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2016
    1,107
    1,311
    12
    Location:
    Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Now that the head is off - it'll be really easy to do a piston soak on it. If you wanted to try to free the rings...

    Pixel XL ?
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,723
    38,253
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    When the head's off, I wonder how much the rest weighs...:whistle:
     
  18. Baz2473

    Baz2473 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    37
    16
    0
    Location:
    Kent. England.
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    It took me 8 hours to get it to this stage but I wasn’t rushing by any means. I had one problem with one of the exhaust manifold nuts rounding and refusing to come off so had to remove the head with the exhaust manifold still attached! This added to the time.

    Cylinder #1 is the one nearest the timing chain.

    I plan on cleaning mine well, luckily the gasket leak was only very small so not really any oil/water gunk mixture anywhere other than inside plenum #2...
     
    #58 Baz2473, Feb 17, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  19. Baz2473

    Baz2473 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    37
    16
    0
    Location:
    Kent. England.
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    C981E755-3D75-4152-90EA-059495070B5C.jpeg C70CEF52-97C9-411B-8330-46F35E30CFC9.jpeg EFACB423-9F20-4C80-A363-A1236586127C.jpeg 315C89D1-08A5-423D-99C7-3259E2BDD307.jpeg 083C3C5F-1FD7-4AE1-A37D-2FC108BFEF90.jpeg 652599E3-B97E-4BDC-9CC6-A5FB049AE65A.jpeg The MYSTERIOUS MISFIRE has gone!

    Turned out that the head gasket was leaking a very small amount of water into cylinder 2, it was such a small amount that when the engine was running it was just being burned off and not noticed, but when the ignition was on but the engine wasn’t running (water pump still works at this time) then the small amount of water leaking into cylinder 2 had the chance to build up therefore causing the misfire whenever the engine restarted (normally when the hybrid battery got low enough).

    The valve stem oil seals for cylinder 2 were shot! That explained the oily sludgy buildup in the intake plenum for cylinder 2 and also the blocking up of number 2 fuel injector adding to the misfire.

    Before taking the plunge and stripping my engine down I put a borescope into each cylinder. Piston 2 looked steam cleaned compared to the other 3, This confirmed my suspicion of a head gasket leak.
    I also did a block test and compression test, all resulted in further proof of head gasket failure. (Likely caused by a blocked up EGR system for at least 100,000 miles causing the engine to run hotter than specification for too long a periods).

    I’ve attached some pictures of the findings and rebuild.

    Currently sitting on 199,150 miles. Hopefully I’ll get another couple of 100,000 miles now.

    Thanks for all the suggestions.
     
    mjoo, bisco, RMB and 2 others like this.
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,796
    48,996
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    great write up and pics, thank you!(y)